Book 1 Tier List discussion

*chuckles* From top to bottom, how funny is that?

I'd prefer a book 1 to be honest, FE1's just stupid. All who join early are hte best, you just promote early and the game's a joke. Book 1 keeps it cool.

Why are Cain and Abel below Navarre? Dismount allows them to basically be mercs early on, and when they start doubling with spears on mounts...

I believe that this was your most recent tier list (from gamefaqs):

Top Tier:
Marich
Oguma
Abel
Hardain
Kain
Roshe
Navarre
Chainy

High Tier:
Marth
Barts
Julian
Katua
Paola
Sheeda
Minerva

Mid Tier:
Maji
Est
Samson
Raddy
Alan
Wendal
Rena
Linda

Low Tier:
Astoria
Kashim
Medea
Gordon
Machis
George
Saji
Ceaser
Ricardo
Banetou
Ellis
Maria

Bottom Tier:
Lawrence
Ulf
Doga
Toms
Chiki
Villuck
Boa
Michelan
Jeigan
Zaggaro
Thomas

Well Chainey certainly needs to go down. He's only considered High on FEDS, having another Zagaro [Or in this case Ogma] isn't as awesome as it used to be since you have a whole army of rape machines by the time he joins, and on top of all this he doesn't even copy HP anymore.

Maybe not Mid, but definitely not Top.

Also, I don't see why Tomas<Zaggaro. Tomas can take an early, low competed for Orion Bolt [O NOES GORDIN WONT BE ABLE TO USE IT NOW] and have stats that don't suck. Zagg/Ulf? They're kinda stuck.

And I most certainly can't see why such a huge unit gap between Zagg and Ulf is justified. It's true Ulf has a notable speed win. But since Book 1 has so many lol0 AS enemies, does he really double anything Zag doesn't?

Well it was pretty much your list from what I remember, so make the changes as needed. I haven't played Book 1 in three years or so, so I can't really remember too many of the details.

whut, I put Ellis>Maria? That's changing

How did all the fliers not named Est wind up right next to each other?

Est in Mid tier? WTF? Radd's a growth unit too, like her, except he joins early.

I personally don't agree with Astram>Kashim. Enemy phase is nice and all, but when you have shit durability there becomes a problem, and Astram with his awesome 24 HP/9 def has that problem. His durability is awful enough to put Kashim>Him into consideration.

Boa shouldn't be bottom tier. Staves>>>>>>Shit combat

damn, if I advocated most of this shit [I'm neither confirming nor denying anything] I'm an even bigger n00b than I think I was back then

Moreover, how is Jeorge<Gordin?

Also, stickied topic. I'm going to move all these posts to a separate topic to avoid clutter in the main topic.

EDIT: Sorry Jackal, I accidentally deleted your most recent post.

Samson and Alan down?

Why are Samson and Alan so high up for characters that join so late and at the same time are not special in anyway in terms of combat?

Kashim up a tier? his performance is probably better in book 1 than in book 2 since he joins earlier and he's in top in book 2. (yes I know this isn't an actual argument).

Est should drop a lot. Minerva>Katua and Pala? Due to join time and they have kinda bad availability in book 1.

Wendel > Maji?
Same move.
Same base HP and Defense, Maji\'s 30% more Defense growth is a win vs. Wendel\'s 50% HP more growth, Maji has a level lead but Wendel will likely catch up to that before Maji hits Level 20 because of faster leveling and Wendel gets 2 more level-ups due to lower starting level. Maji averaging 24HP/12Def at Level 20 likely means durability trouble if he goes 1-range and needs to take counters. So for Maji to really win durability he\'s probably going to have to stick to Hand Axes and go to the back lines pretty frequently and I really doubt that even with Book 1 enemies that\'s going to be decent offense.
Then Wendel has staves! Easy victory even with Maji having an availability lead.
Wendel probably goes to High Tier, too, he\'s way too good for the jokes in Mid Tier. Alan and Samson start with sub-Maji durability and either no 1-2 range or poor 1-2 range. (Them going down is possible but out of Mid seems unlikely because as bad as they are, Low Tier characters with few exceptions really does seem quite a bit worse.) Raddy is a growth unit that joins later than Wendel and wins at basically nothing for quite some time. Est is lol. Enemies may generally be jokes in Book 1, but they're not so terrible as to make staves irrelevant for purposes other than leveling faster.

Staffs aren't quite irrelevent to bishops, as it helps them level faster than everybody else.

Est should drop a lot. Minerva>Katua and Pala? Due to join time and they have kinda bad availability in book 1.

I actually see it.

For durability if nothing else.

Kashim up a tier? his performance is probably better in book 1 than in book 2 since he joins earlier and he's in top in book 2. (yes I know this isn't an actual argument).

It's possible. People seem to agree with him>Astram.

Est should drop a lot.

I'll cram her in Low to start, and we can work from there.

Wendel > Maji?

sure

Wendel probably goes to High Tier, too.

I dunno. I don't really know if a tier gap on Lena is justified.

Enemies may generally be jokes in Book 1, but they're not so terrible as to make staves irrelevant.

Speaking of, Boa moved out of Bottom.

Oh, and Low tier looked too big. I split it.

I dunno. I don't really know if a tier gap on Lena is justified.

I can see it. If Book 1 enemies are truly fail, then we'll rarely be seeing any Hammerne use due to needing only more mundane weapons. Wendell also has the Wlv to use Warp.

Due to the NM nature of Book 1, Wendell's better Mov is going to be better than most things Rena can do.

Why are Samson and Alan so high up for characters that join so late and at the same time are not special in anyway in terms of combat?

This isn't FEDS. Samson is actually quite decent in this game. Same for Astoria, who I think should rise to the same tier. Samson starts with a whopping one more Def with the same HP. Samson will eventually have more durability, but not that much more since Astoria's HP growth will close the gap, enough to where it is not a tier gap.

I can see it. If Book 1 enemies are truly fail, then we'll rarely be seeing any Hammerne use due to needing only more mundane weapons. Wendell also has the Wlv to use Warp.

I'm basing that claim off of General staff use, not just Hammerene.

Darros is missing from the list. As for where, it should simply be said that he should always be above Saji, as he's essentially the same, with the exception that Darros has water walk for use in chapter 4 and Pyarthi.

Darros is missing from the list.

Darros isn't in this game, ya think that's why?

EDIT: And look. He's already above Saji on the FE1 list, too.

Of course he's in this game, this is a ti-fuck, this is book 1 and not FE1, isn't it?

*Facedesk* I fail so hard...

I'm basing that claim off of General staff use, not just Hammerene.

Wendell is also a healer. I only mentioned Hammerne as something Wendell can't do.

What was the justification for Maji being as high as he is again? Ending up with 24HP/12Def is really bad durability. Being stuck with Axes which are inaccurate and weight you down at least 7 spd is also bad. PCs like Wendel and Rena being healers in of itself is pretty valuable. Dragons, Mages and Mercs will completely own him. His good sped is ruined by axes so his offense isn't that great either and his earlygame isn't that special until he procs speed to double zero speed enemies with bad defense to be useful. His durability is slightly better than Kashim's and Marich's, which isn't saying much and Maji does not have accurate chip offense either (lol heavy, inaccurate hand axes.

while his defense might end up ok, he starts with 5 defense, which means he isn't special as a melee fighter.

Wendell is also a healer. I only mentioned Hammerne as something Wendell can't do.

I know Wendell is also a healer, I just don't think the ability to attack-screw it, it probably is.

What was the justification for Maji being as high as he is again? Ending up with 24HP/12Def is really bad durability.

Def>HP. Book 1 enemies generally have very low attack values. Maji's fine unless he gets hit by a mage or something.

Being stuck with Axes which are inaccurate and weight you down at least 7 spd is also bad.

Axes being inaccurate doesn't really fly on a game where enemies can't dodge to save their life. Maji may need a skill ring or something, true, but you've got a grand total of nobody else really wanting one. Even then it's only a MAJOR issue with anything with lower hit than iron, and Maji shouldn't need Steel too often to kill.

Also, enemies are piss slow. Maji shouldn't have a problem doubling.

PCs like Wendel and Rena being healers in of itself is pretty valuable.

oh

well, it's a good thing Wendell's above him

Def>HP. Book 1 enemies generally have very low attack values. Maji's fine unless he gets hit by a mage or something.

This isn't quite true, pirate at the first chapter have 12-13 attack. By chapter 9 the 6AS mercenaries have 13attack too. Maji doesn't start out with 12def by any means, rather 5. I compared Maji (a frontliner) to Marich and Kashim guys who do chip damage for a living and don't face counters and have bad durability. The armors in chapter 7 have 11def and the horsemen have 3AS. Maji isn't going to double until he gains at least 1AS and he needs to only fight 0spd enemies. Past chapter 9 enemies start swarming you and unless you are leveling characters way faster than I am (by chapter 9 my highest leveled character was at 11/1), Maji's offense/defense isn't great.

Axes being inaccurate doesn't really fly on a game where enemies can't dodge to save their life. Maji may need a skill ring or something, true, but you've got a grand total of nobody else really wanting one. Even then it's only a MAJOR issue with anything with lower hit than iron, and Maji shouldn't need Steel too often to kill.

Also, enemies are piss slow. Maji shouldn't have a problem doubling.

I'm just saying Axes for a character who will cap speed at 15-16 isn't good as he is stuck with 7AS at most. This won't happen for a long time mind you as getting to level 20 is an issue in itself, with high deployments and getting many good characters early on. I'm just saying early on Maji can hold his own, but by middle-game he isn't that durable or strong anymore.

oh

well, it's a good thing Wendell's above him

False at the moment both him and Rena are below Maji

12-13 attack. By chapter 9 the 6AS mercenaries have 13attack too. Maji doesn't start out with 12def by any means, rather 5.

He's also not going to have 5 def at Chapter 9. so let's redo that.

say, him at 11 has 23 hp/8 def. vs 12/13 attack? That's a...5-6RKO. Nope, dunno where you're getting bad durability from.

I'm just saying Axes for a character who will cap speed at 15-16 isn't good as he is stuck with 7AS at most.

7 AS when Mercs are pretty much the only thing he cant double [srsly he starts doubling horsemen after a while] =/= bad.

False at the moment both him and Rena are below Maji

Then that's just a change I haven't gotten around to making. Wendell>Maji has been agreed on.

He's also not going to have 5 def at Chapter 9. so let's redo that.

say, him at 11 has 23 hp/8 def. vs 12/13 attack? That's a...5-6RKO. Nope, dunno where you're getting bad durability from.
7 AS when Mercs are pretty much the only thing he cant double [srsly he starts doubling horsemen after a while] =/= bad.

Hmm I suppose, he is durable up to chapter 9. I concede...for now...until I look closer at enemy stats anyways as in a recent file I only did get to chapter 9 >.> and then an error occured...Since Wendel is apparently higher than Maji, my next comparison is with either Linda, Raddy, Rena, or Kashim huh...

Anyway until I replay and get to chapter 10 >.< to get enemy stats. How about Kashim>Linda
7 chapters of availibility, very little-no competition for the promotion item. Effective against fliers and better durability and attack (even hitting res). Bows are also slight more accurate than tomes. Linda is also under leveled, and has to compete with Marich and Rena for the first promotion item. If you give him the manuel (not like anyone else wants it) he can use Partia for chapter 11 onward.

Raddy down to below Rena maybe Linda?
Yes his growths rock,but he is REALLY hard to level up especially since enemies stop having 3defense past chapter 3. I guess armor slayer for armors, but leveling him up is really hard especially since, this game has high deployment and Exp spread overall is kinda low. Random Archers in chapter 8 hit like 7 defense (as well as the Cavs). Rena provides healing utility for 7 chapters which is>>>bad offense. Two healers are useful in a game where dodge is not very reliable. Linda comes also underleveled (but its not like Raddy was wowzers in his 2 chapter availibility win and gained 12 levels). has an prf weapon that hits 21att at res. Her offense is actually comparible to Marichs due to hitting res and also can double with thunder whatever hits below 4AS.

BTW why is Marich at the top of the top?

For reference: If Uppermid was reordered it would be (if my arguments are accepted):
Upper-mid
Wendel
Maji (until I look at enemy stats past chapter 9)
Rena
Kashim
Linda
Raddy

Anyway until I replay and get to chapter 10 >.< to get enemy stats. How about Kashim>Linda

absolutely

Raddy down to below Rena maybe Linda?

works for me

BTW why is Marich at the top of the top?

Great durability growths, oober offense [He's really the only one who's going to be needing the power ring unless shit like Vyland or Matthis is is in play], and staves after promotion. Maybe him vs Ogma is more debatable than I made it look on gamefaqs, though.