Tina down to bottom of high

Her utility is entirely situation and is very similar to ones of a thiefs, however she can only do it 4 times and depends on repair for more help. I'm having trouble seeing Tina above Sara/Sleuf/Linoan/Salem when their staff utility is used much more often and is more required to complete maps.

Tina's gets A rank staves in a heartbeat, thanks to PRF staves giving ridiculous experience. She even gets the exp when she misses. Also, good luck having a thief steal anything that Thief staff is usually nabbing (Sleep Sword, etc).

I´m somewhat indifferent here. Tina essentially has both staff and thief utility with her prf weapons, which is an insanely hax combo, indirectly obtaining you lots of other items in the process that are extremely hard to measure. Like, she steals a Sleep Sword with Thief staff, so now someone else can put a guy with a rich inventory to sleep and capture the guy. Or she steals a Sleep Staff, effectively protecting the team against 3 sleep assaults AND providing you with three easy captures or w/e in the process. And Unlock is a cool way to beat thieves to chest.

Indeed, if I could count all the things the thief staff could get me that a thief couldn't, I wouldn't know how to spell just how great it is.

Oh, nab master weapons from the boss of Tahra, along with his Tornado spell? Great, just saved me a Rescue use! Sleep Swords, yes please! More master weapons, hell yeah! Yoink Tron from that boss in Xavier's chapter, let's just go ahead and defang Reinhardt right there...

Thief staff is wtf hax.

IOS wrote:Tina's gets A rank staves in a heartbeat, thanks to PRF staves giving ridiculous experience. She even gets the exp when she misses. Also, good luck having a thief steal anything that Thief staff is usually nabbing (Sleep Sword, etc).

I think getting A staves in a heartbeat is a bit of a stretch, 20 hits for an A, she has 7 uses initially, and I was under the impression people don't just spam them nonstop to get her rank up. Unlock later appears, but its chapter 21 late, so it not like she should waste unlock uses too.

I don't see how stealing 3 admitedly useful, but far from necessary to complete the game weapons/staves outweigh everything that Sleuf/Sara/Salem/Linoan does for around 10 chapters. Its not like you even need to get those sleep swords, and its not like you couldn't just sleep a mageknight and capture him later when you need to.

Grandjackal wrote:Indeed, if I could count all the things the thief staff could get me that a thief couldn't, I wouldn't know how to spell just how great it is.

Oh, nab master weapons from the boss of Tahra, along with his Tornado spell? Great, just saved me a Rescue use! Sleep Swords, yes please! More master weapons, hell yeah! Yoink Tron from that boss in Xavier's chapter, let's just go ahead and defang Reinhardt right there...

Thief staff is wtf hax.

Tornado is a terrible spell unless you combine it with ambush. Its like Tron, but worse. If you want that tron in Xavier's chapter you can just have pahn steal it with the body ring you also get in that chapter (besides I think staves don't target enemies on thrones). Sleep swords can be gotton through a sleep staff use and are far from necessary items to complete the game and using one is a risky adventure in general. Lol how people complain about Daim thunders weight and hit rate when Sleep sword is 20 weight and 55 hit.

Since when is the weight of the Sleep Sword relevant? The point of it is to you know...put the enemy to sleep to make not doubling/being doubled irrelevant.

Hits the same as a Master weapon, and sword users generally have the high skill to counteract the lower hit (unlike Olwen).

Watch ThunderMan's FE5 playthrough to see how much easier they make the game.

Tornado is a terrible spell unless you combine it with ambush.

On the other hand, no slayer effect on Dean, so I don't have to waste a rescue staff getting the dragon spear.

The rest I suppose counters my points well.

IOS wrote:Since when is the weight of the Sleep Sword relevant? The point of it is to you know...put the enemy to sleep to make not doubling/being doubled irrelevant.

Hits the same as a Master weapon, and sword users generally have the high skill to counteract the lower hit (unlike Olwen).

Watch ThunderMan's FE5 playthrough to see how much easier they make the game.

What if Sleep sword misses? Which isn't hard given terrain and the general bad hit of the sword. Do you really want to take a risk of getting countered by an enemy with an awesome weapon?

Olwen has 8 skill and 55% growth, Daim thunder has 15% more hit and has around 5 more chapters to use that growth and level up before sleep sword appears. Olwen is also supported by Leaf who is always around, Shiva and Fergus is not supported by Leaf(random characters with A swords).

I don't like how you keep bring up his playthrough, and I have seen it. Are you sure that was an efficient playthrough? Not to bash it or anything, he heavily favored Marty, gave Dadga the speed ring, and decided to wait for reinforcments to gain extra EXP wasting at least 10 turns in some chapters. I.E. chapter 19

Grandjackal wrote:

Tornado is a terrible spell unless you combine it with ambush.

On the other hand, no slayer effect on Dean, so I don't have to waste a rescue staff getting the dragon spear.

The rest I suppose counters my points well.

You could also silence him too. Its not like those silence staves are limited in this game at all.

You can even get the lance w/o warp and rescue too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xhlfVaEb1M&feature=related

Brighton wrote:
What if Sleep sword misses? Which isn't hard given terrain and the general bad hit of the sword. Do you really want to take a risk of getting countered by an enemy with an awesome weapon?

Olwen has 8 skill and 55% growth, Daim thunder has 15% more hit and has around 5 more chapters to use that growth and level up before sleep sword appears. Olwen is also supported by Leaf who is always around, Shiva and Fergus is not supported by Leaf(random characters with A swords).

Sleep Sword missing isn't the end of the world, because it likely won't result in an ORKO like it would with Olwen thanks to her terrible defenses. We can't even really compare Daim Thunder and Sleep Sword anyways, they serve completely different purposes.

I don't like how you keep bring up his playthrough, and I have seen it. Are you sure that was an efficient playthrough? Not to bash it or anything, he heavily favored Marty, gave Dadga the speed ring, and decided to wait for reinforcments to gain extra EXP wasting at least 10 turns in some chapters. I.E. chapter 19

Up to Chapter 19 was all efficient. Arguably 17A wasn't as efficient either, as he probably should of warp skipped. That doesn't change the fact that many of his strategies were effective. As for favoring Marty, Wrath was really the only huge favoritism he got. He got a few Sety/Odo levelups (the rest of the team didn't really need skl/spd) and the skill ring (same) so the opportunity cost of those additional resources was much lower then if somebody else was given them due to how much he improved from them. As for giving Dadga the speed ring, who else should of got it? Shiva? Fergus? Another of the 10000 overkill speed units?

Speed Ring on Dagda improves his capturing abilities (4 hits >>> 2 hits) and makes Dagda's usefulness and combat last longer. As IOS said, nobody really needs it besides say Marty or Leaf and saving it for others results in the opportunity cost of improving the previously mentioned units.

That playthrough wasn't meant to be efficient, just a regular playthrough was my intention though I did manage to pull off some effective strategies. The likes of C17A, C19 and C22, I basically wanted to do the chapter "the hard way" with C19 being that I kill everything in sight though I ended up retreating because it literally became Reinforcement abuse and did not want that.

As for the question of Thief Staff needing repairs... personally I usually use 2 for Brave weapons and the other 3 for Thief Staff since stealing certain items can speed up the game and make a lot of things easier (Blizzard, Sleep Sword, Getting something you can't reach in time, etc).

The issue I have with this is that while the stuff Tina gets you is nice and all, its not like it is necessary. While it does help, I'm not seeing A staff users below her.

The issue of sleep sword was brought up alot, so was the master weapons. While I don't deny her ability to use staves and her prf staves enough to put her in high, its not like they are an absolute must unless you are SSS ranking the game and must steal that warp staff from the boss instead of just silencing him and capturing him with Dean because you have to take only 1 turn every chapter.

oops

Brighton wrote:The issue I have with this is that while the stuff Tina gets you is nice and all, its not like it is necessary. While it does help, I'm not seeing A staff users below her.

The issue of sleep sword was brought up alot, so was the master weapons. While I don't deny her ability to use staves and her prf staves enough to put her in high, its not like they are an absolute must unless you are SSS ranking the game and must steal that warp staff from the boss instead of just silencing him and capturing him with Dean because you have to take only 1 turn every chapter.

Thing is, said staff gets her to A staffs at lightning speed. I had an efficiency run, and I don't remember exactly where, but I know it didn't take her long to hit A rank. At least, she got A rank at the point where we generally are just warp-haxing the rest of the game.

Sort of like Salem, except her thief staff allows her a shortcut that doesn't require a master seal, but without the meh offense.

Brighton wrote:The issue I have with this is that while the stuff Tina gets you is nice and all, its not like it is necessary. While it does help, I'm not seeing A staff users below her.

The issue of sleep sword was brought up alot, so was the master weapons. While I don't deny her ability to use staves and her prf staves enough to put her in high, its not like they are an absolute must unless you are SSS ranking the game and must steal that warp staff from the boss instead of just silencing him and capturing him with Dean because you have to take only 1 turn every chapter.

Neither is A ranked staves. It's not a matter of necessity, it's how useful her capabilities are. She's using A ranked staves as well as the others (minus the status staves on high MAG units obviously) and in addition she has thieving utility that's more efficient (though limited). That's enough to warrant a gap.

ThunderMan wrote:
Neither is A ranked staves. It's not a matter of necessity, it's how useful her capabilities are. She's using A ranked staves as well as the others (minus the status staves on high MAG units obviously) and in addition she has thieving utility that's more efficient (though limited). That's enough to warrant a gap.

What is considered efficiency, until this is decided I'm not sure how to respond. The china FE stategies are often very efficient for chapters, but most ppl don't play that way