Map Affinities

Has anyone ever taken these into account in comparisons? That extra avoid and hit can be pretty helpful.

im bored so

Dark: 4
Fire: 7
Water: 6
Light: 4
Heaven: 5
Earth: 7
Wind: 5
Thunder: 5


Solidifies Earth's status as "broken affinity". Also note that this doesn't exclude joke chapters/chapters where it doesn't make a difference like 1-P, 1-9, 2-P, et cetera, so it probably isn't a good idea just to judge it based on just these numbers.

After seeing an armor's avoid jump above a myrmidon's because of the affinity difference, I am convinced that this needs to be investigated to see if it changes anything.

Map Affinities don't do anything in Hard Mode, so it isn't important anyways.

Oh, they don't?

Oops.

I thought that the WT disappearing was the only thing that was different.

It does make me think that an NM tier list is warranted, though.

bblader1 wrote:It does make me think that an NM tier list is warranted, though.

Why here and nowhere else?

Why not? Mechanics change pretty heavily on NM due to existing WT and map affinity, and existing EXP gain.

Besides, there used to be a NM tier list for FE6 on gamefaqs, of which I have no idea happened to, and a NM tier list for FEDS, which people stopped caring about.

bblader1 wrote:It does make me think that an NM tier list is warranted, though.

That's a list you'd basically have to start from scratch and you'd have to stipulate a list of rules in advance. Some characters, thanks to circumstances, have the option of doing things that severely alter the list.

Really, there is just too much bexp.

bblader1 wrote:Why not? Mechanics change pretty heavily on NM due to existing WT and map affinity, and existing EXP gain.

Besides, there used to be a NM tier list for FE6 on gamefaqs, of which I have no idea happened to, and a NM tier list for FEDS, which people stopped caring about.

Map affinity bonus is only +5 anyway.

I don't really see a need for it. Like Narga said, there's way too much BEXP to toss around, doubling becomes less of an issue for a lot of people, etc. I mean, sure, we could make one, there would definitely be differences (Edward would go up, I imagine), but I don't really like ranking characters on the easier difficulties because it's just too easy to make everyone a raep machine.

Red Fox of Fire wrote:

bblader1 wrote:Why not? Mechanics change pretty heavily on NM due to existing WT and map affinity, and existing EXP gain.

Besides, there used to be a NM tier list for FE6 on gamefaqs, of which I have no idea happened to, and a NM tier list for FEDS, which people stopped caring about.

Map affinity bonus is only +5 anyway.

I don't really see a need for it. Like Narga said, there's way too much BEXP to toss around, doubling becomes less of an issue for a lot of people, etc. I mean, sure, we could make one, there would definitely be differences (Edward would go up, I imagine), but I don't really like ranking characters on the easier difficulties because it's just too easy to make everyone a raep machine.

Exhibit A: Nephenee with the 2-3 bexp. (Haar is rape anyway and Brom is less rape than Neph would be, and splitting the exp in half and giving to Brom and Neph is inefficient anyway. No other meaningful candidates for that bexp.)

Yeah, until you gather enough bexp in part 3 to actually promote someone at 20/1 (and depending on who you choose even then), she'll be second only to Haar. And that's just because you can't give her wings.

I don't particularly want to see Neph in top tier, thanks.


Maybe halfway through part 3, Soren can become a ORKO machine, though he still has durability issues that even an earth support wouldn't fix. Or you could give Mia the bexp dump. Or you could give it to Ike if you don't care he'll be level 20 for a long time and just want him to kill stuff even harder. Or you could give it to Titania since the +3 def will be quite nice. Or you could ...

The trouble is that it is probably inefficient to spread the bexp around at this point since you can probably afford to top people's levels after they cap stuff and still save enough to jump an individual up to tier 3 two or three times during part 3. Having everyone at level 15 is probably less efficient than having all but two units at level 13 and having those 2 units at 20/1. Or something like that.

The fun part is that none of those units take precedence over any other, since by 3-7 they can probably all take the dump (except snipers and Mist and Heather and Kyza and Lyre) and be amazing. So since it isn't realistic to consider them with a bexp split, everyone being tiered gets the advantage of bexp when you look at their position. So the GMs all jump to high tier. Or you name it upper mid and everybody from the GMs is there and only units like Neph and Haar actually get to High.

It would be, interesting.

Yeah, until you gather enough bexp in part 3 to actually promote someone at 20/1 (and depending on who you choose even then), she'll be second only to Haar. And that's just because you can't give her wings.

Not to be a nitpick, but a 20/6 Nephenee needs 25500 to promote, The max amount of bexp in Part 2 is 22100, and some of that is bound to just giving Haar/Brom that little boost they need. Elincia too, probably. So nephenee is only really going to get around 20/15 or so.

RD NM would be plagued by shit like "Oh RNG doesn't matter because Battle Saves lol", and if you specify a rule against it you'll get whiners complaining that "'Real' players use Battle Save, thus ivory tower", because en realidad all characters reach their averages 100% of the time and no one messes up and does the exact same thing the exact same way so regular tier lists aren't ivory towers already (but not really, since everyone's convinced that the way THEY play is the closest to perfection, not counting exceptions like assholes who are ridiculously lucky/unlucky).

Paperblade wrote:RD NM would be plagued by shit like "Oh RNG doesn't matter because Battle Saves lol", and if you specify a rule against it you'll get whiners complaining that "'Real' players use Battle Save, thus ivory tower", because en realidad all characters reach their averages 100% of the time and no one messes up and does the exact same thing the exact same way so regular tier lists aren't ivory towers already (but not really, since everyone's convinced that the way THEY play is the closest to perfection, not counting exceptions like assholes who are ridiculously lucky/unlucky).

Um, you know in HM you can still focus on one or two characters at the start of each battle and reset until they get acceptable levels (like, say, getting Micaiah speed). Also, you can reset bexp levels multiple times (hundreds, if necessary) to get units more str than they should have or more spd or more whatever. Seeing as how nobody is currently suggesting doing that (though I have in the past asked for resets for knowing a string of coins in advance, though I now accept the reasons for not allowing that) I'd have to think we shouldn't get that issue on a NM tier list. Besides, do you see anybody suggesting resetting Mist's bexp levels in PoR to get her respectable amounts of skl/def? It's easily doable, but I notice a distinct lack of attempts to get those practices accepted.

Aside from resetting until you get the 6th best growth to proc in a bexp level in RD, I can't imagine much that would actually take more real time to pull off than resetting and reloading battle saves multiple times to get better levels for each character. In fact, since your opportunities are fewer in HM, it should take less total time than abusing NM.

You never saw Fencedude's posts, did you?

Paperblade wrote:You never saw Fencedude's posts, did you?

You know I wasn't really around back in 2008.

Was Fencedude ever part of the HM list? Or the PoR list? since I'd think that philosophy should follow to the HM list and the PoR list. Anyway, I was mostly just skimming every few weeks back when most of the battles were taking place on Gamefaqs.

The current people arguing don't seem likely to do that. Certainly not the people on this particular board. I have other issues with a NM RD list, but I don't think requests for Battle Save Abuse would be a problem.

And for all I know, this Fencedude could even have changed his/her mind about bsa in RD NM by now. It has been a while.

It's not about whether or not Fence ever changed his mind. It's about the fact that there are people who will make ridiculous claims and will be taken seriously.

Paperblade wrote:It's not about whether or not Fence ever changed his mind. It's about the fact that there are people who will make ridiculous claims and will be taken seriously.

Okay. So it was a problem. I'm suggesting it wouldn't be a problem here.

But I do agree that it would be a nuisance if people tried it.

Paperblade wrote:You never saw Fencedude's posts, did you?

Are you sure you saw them yourself? He talked about battlesave abuse for normal play, not for tiering. This difference was pointed out to you (or smash, I can't tell you two apart) on multiple occasions, because the subject always came up in "Aran or Nephenee" threads that weren't tier-based. I can even remember one specific instance where he was trying to help you and smash stop failing the Nephinel strategy. Did you ever figure it out, by the way?

Apparently you solidify all of your foggy misconceptions into personal truims over the course of time.


Regardless, people will always make silly claims. See right in this forum, where we're supposed to tier an efficiency tier list by assuming max deployment, even though max deployment is neither 1) efficient, or 2) something agreed upon ahead of time.

Thankfully nobody takes smash seriously on that argument, but the fact remains that there will always be silliness. And sometimes the arguments are even valid, like the constant battle between the two negative utility camps.

So, turn off the waterworks.