Concerning Arden

No I'm not jumping the gun, I easily see him bottom tier. I just wish to ask, how much action is he seeing? Way I see it...

Prologue-He could be near the left side by the time Sigurd captures the south castle. He basically just goes left. Maybe I'm misremembering the size of the map, but I don't think it's that troublesome. There are random bandits strewn about the left side, he could cut up a couple people on the way.

Chapter 1-Well, he goes south for the first wave, and from there he will see probably no action. That is unless he goes back up north to help the cross knights fight Elliot's group. They don't show up till later in the chapter, Arden's got plenty of time to twiddle his thumbs. Perhaps Azel could help, if he weren't so flimsy.

Chapter 2-Well like every foot soldier, he's probably not seeing action until Makeley (third castle?). So he's up there being tough, fighting various foot soldiers, laughing at the ballistae and swordfighters. Once all's said and done, he could go north to help fight Zane's force and then warp him to the first boss's castle, or just warp him immediately, as the pursuit ring is just a stone's throw away from that area.

Chapter 3-Well there's a group to the right that's annoying that he could help take out with other noob characters. Immediately, he can head back left for when the cross knights invade. Money says he's never going north unless you purposefully exclude him fro the cross knight skirmish and just have him head up north. Until someone gets the money to buy his ring, he has no reason not to keep it until then.

Chapter 4-Lol, Sylesia. Can Arden even climb mountains? He's helping rescue citizens and fighting a couple of the southern axers, that's it.

Chapter 5 Finale-He's close to doing very little. I suppose he can charge the generals on the left side, but someone has to rescue those villages first, so he's not even sole claimer to that. He might not see any action outside the arena. Only thing he can really do is go to his special spot if you're having someone make babies with him to get a measily 5 skill.

I dunno, maybe I just have a soft spot for armor knights, but he is able to see some action at least. Speaking of though, the arena isn't really a bad place for him. Starting with a slim sword, he's packing 21 mt, which is almost Noish with a lance. 36 HP and 13 Def make him the most durable of your team outside of perhaps Sigurd. At base, he has 100 hit. If the enemy has 0 avoid, he can't miss (thank you weapon weight system). 9 avoid ain't pretty, but it's the hit that matters. Chapter 1, he can't even start missing until the 4rth fight, of which he still has 80 hit on. The dude has 20 mt, doing 7x2 damage to Arden, a 3RKO. This is assuming he's still at base, with his 90 HP and 40 Def growth. He could have seen a bit of action in prologue, and the past 3 arena fights were a cinch. He could easily have gotten and HP and Def proc, 37 HP and 14 Def. 6x2=12, a 4RKO. Arden could have gotten a strength proc as well for 22 mt to this dude's 8 Def and 40 HP. 14 damage, a 3RKO. If he proc'd two Str, that's a 2RKO. Bacchus is an axe armor with 86 hit, adding Arden's 9 avoid and WTA, that's 57 hit. 30 mt seems scary even to Arden, but basically he's missing every other shot. Arden's 22 mt to this dude's 13 Def is 9 to his 53 HP, 6RKO. Considering missing factors, Bacchus is liekly needing 6 attempts to pull the same, but the fact luck might not be on Bacchus's side shows that Arden at least has a chance here. Emil the wind mage with the speed ring and Elwind? Yeah, not gonna get past that. 5 kills. That's about a level and a half.

Chapter 2, axe fighter's cake, fire mage is cake, lance knight is cake. Swordfighter just seems like a clone of Shark, but generally changes little. Heltsok might be a different story, as now lances are the problem as now Arden's not dodging. Doesn't hit as hard, but the fact he probably won't miss and is far tougher poses a roadblock for Arden here.

Chapter 3-Well, no reason he shouldn't have the pursuit ring for this one. Tragedy is, first dude he fights has 5 AS, and Arden starts with a base of 3. He needs 10 levels to double that. It's possible, though it's not like the dude's 19 mt is a problem to Arden by now. Axe fighter's an even bigger joke now that Arden's got the ring. Next dude is a swordfighter who is an exact clone of the last guy, except now he has a steel blade. The dude has 8 AS so he will be doubling, and 27 mt is actually sort of scary to Arden. Then again, if we assume 10 levels, he's got 45 HP and 17 def. It's a defense shy of making it a 5RKO. Arden still with his short sword would have about 26 mt to this dude's 9 Def and 45 HP. 3RKO. So actually, he's not doing that bad, but that's if we're assuming Arden's basically level 13. Steel armor with 30 mt shows up, Arden's got the pursuit ring now. With assumed stats above, this enemy having 58 HP and 15 Def, it's a 4RKO vs a 4-3RKO. Since Arden strikes first, he could actually win this one. Then comes the asshole with Jormungand...Either way, 4 kills for a level and aproxamately a fifth.

Chapter 4-Already runs intoa problem with the first fight, some asshole with Elwind. 24 mt sounds like a dealbreaker. Maybe after he rescues some survivors, he can pull off a win. Either way, Pursuit ring is starting to look useless on him anyways, so he might as well sell it. After him, he could easily eat through the paladin. But then comes the asshole forest knight with a 29 mt attack and Adept, of which has a 14% chance of activating, then Nikita with the hero lance, then friggin' mage knight. At best, he's getting 2 here.

Chapter 5-First dude is a swordfighter named Jackal, a slightly stronger clone of the following assholes. Arden won't have a hard time. Arden also shouldn't have any problem with the warrior. General Geese he can double if he still has the pursuit ring, but it's a questionable fight. 32 Mt, high HP with 18 Def and Great Shield might be trouble. No wall in hell he's beating the forrest knight with his Adept, high mt (19 Str with a thunder sword), and 42 sickening avoid. 2, 3 is a maybe.

I dunno, I guess what I'm trying to see is that at least when Arden sees action, he's not liable to die. His hits also tend to be painful (hits almost as hard as Noish with a lance at base), and he at first doesn't have too hard a time in the arena. I'd say this is better than Tltyu who basically has the same problems, except A. She needs to be attacked to have "offense", and from there, B. she is a magical archer versus a tank. I could send Arden on a couple solo missions if I pleased, I have to have a babysitter for Tiltyu at all times.

He also has plenty of time to develop a relationship for financial reasons, though the chances of that are incredibly slim...

Ardan only has 90 hit at base level. The only Swords with 90 Hit are Slim, Defender, and the Balmung.

In the arena, both combatants get +20 Avoid. So Ardan actually has sub-100 Hit against the second enemy. He has serious hit problems vs. Weissman due to WTD. He's pretty much SOL against Shark because he only has like 60% hit rate vs. his massive avoid, plus he's being doubled. If he does manage to beat Shark though, Bacchus is a pushover since axe vs. Sword in the arena is lol. Snowball's chance in hell vs. Emmile though. Unlikely to ever see combat other than sitting back killing Elliot's dudes, which isn't worth crap because Elto can solo them.

Mahatma in the Ch. 2 arena may 2 shot him. His Skl/Spd/Lck growths blow so Lovin is owning him as hard as Weiss was, same with Bachnin and Shark. No chance vs. Hertz though. Lance Armor ftl. Unfortunately, the only time he's likely to see combat is versus the band of mages and Sword/Bowfighters, where he's getting doubled or just outright owned.

Ch. 3 is even worse because the Swordfighter is the third round, and Ardan has gained maybe 2 Hit/3 Avoid at best since he fought Shark. Another Lance Armor that he probably can't beat. If he goes east he's vs. Javelins which he can't counter (and they have high hit on him and still like 5-6HKO him) plus Silver Lance General which 3 shots him at like 100% hit rates.

Kemall in Ch. 4 (round 1) probably just 2 shots him at like 68% hit rates while Ardan struggles at like 60%. Also, I'm unsure of where you're getting that 14% Adept from, since Adept is AS+20 activation, and he has 11AS at melee and 5 at range, giving him 31% and 25% respectively. Again, doesn't do crap in this chapter since he never catches up and can't cross mountains without being Warped to Silesia, and then he's still behind.

Ch. 5 again unlikely to see combat other than going west.

Basically Ardan contributes absolutely nothing to the team other than Pursuit Ring which can be done without giving him any EXP or items ever, and to get EXP he has to play selfish and arena, kill crap like Elliot's forces in Ch. 1 which is worthless, or take civilians away from units who would actually do something with the EXP (like Azel, who gets a pony or Dew, who gets Pursuit). Even if Ardan ever shows up to a fight, he hits once for crappy damage and then sits around doing nothing, maybe getting doubled and pwned by anyone with Pursuit since he's slow or 3 shotted by a mage because he's ugly.

Tiltyu's pretty bad but at least if we intentionally have her lose in the arena she can go one shot stuff, which is more than loldan can say. And she can cross mountains in Ch.4 so she can participate in the final stretch. I'm pretty sure if Tiltyu just one shotted one guy with Wrath it'd be more useful than Ardan's entire existence.

I dunno, I just did a playthrough. After taking the first fort in the prologue, Arden was close enough to help Lex tank the left side. The bottleneck strategy is slow, If you're gonna draw them out, you need someone tough. Lex is generally as durable as your other cavs save Alec, but then again he's probably the worst dodger, so whatever hits he takes, he has to suck it down. I should note I took the fort at turn 9.

There's a huge swarm, and they generally have 19 ATK the axers. The archers have 17 ATK. Arden has 36 HP, 13 Def base. Arden is 6RKOd. axes have 70 hit. WTA, drops it down to 50 (because the triangle in this game is insane). Enemy skill is negated by Arden's speed, the 3 luck drops them to 47 hit. It's not reliable, but it's safe to say this will dodge some attacks. 6RKOd by axers, 9RKOd by archers, and he has decent chances at dodging axes. Needless to say, he can safely draw them out while keeping them pinned at the river, so I don't have to fight them out in the open. Thus, I have them trapped, and easily taken out. I beat prologue in 16 turns.

I'm pretty sure without Arden having drawn them out, this chapter either wouldn't have gone as quickly, or wouldn't have been as easy. So Arden can actually help in prologue by a measurable deal. When Tiltyu arrives, those with that low a move probably are never gonna see much action, and even if she did I doubt she's speeding up any process to make a chapter go any faster.

Basically, at least Arden has a bit of prologue.

I've never ever used a bottleneck strategy.

The guys at Evans run out by themselves, so I engage them at the little forested area for more Avoid. Sigurd usually gets like 1 round of combat since he's the last to arrive due to seize and has to talk to Alvis, so I don't think it could really be improved upon. So no, Ardan isn't unique.

Paperblade wrote:I've never ever used a bottleneck strategy.

The guys at Evans run out by themselves, so I engage them at the little forested area for more Avoid. Sigurd usually gets like 1 round of combat since he's the last to arrive due to seize and has to talk to Alvis, so I don't think it could really be improved upon. So no, Ardan isn't unique.

Perhaps not, but he's at least capable.

Besides, I got Sigurd a round of combat as well, because I didn't rush to Arvis immediately, mainly cause I didn't need to. By the time Sigurd showed up, I was mopping up. Didn't fight them in the forest, because that river allowed me to trap them in as I crushed them against the wall. Really, only reason it wasn't 15 turns was because I didn't feel like risking chipping at the boss. Had I, and I could have.

While we're on the subject, what makes Ardan > Dierdre?

Then Red Fox came in to blindside me x.x

I still say Arden's better than Tiltyu...But yeah, Diedre can be above both. Silencing a Fenrir boss, a Sleep Staff boss, sounds better than what the other two do (prologue tanking for Arden, masturbation for Tiltyu, or might as well be ince she adds nothing special to the team, nor does anything noteworthy to make up for it any time soon).

I actually kind of agree. Dierdre is basically Azel with staves [her single hits are fairly powerful and can actually OHKO some enemies [don't underesimate 34 base atk res hit, with 70% growth] minus the horse on promotion. If a horse makes a tier difference, staves should warrant her>Arden.

EDT:

Oh right. I almost forgot the only reason she was OHKOing shit was because I tossed her the Magic Ring. Still, it doesn't fix Azel's problems, which are mov and durability, and it doesn't fix Levin's problems, which is not DAing consistently, so I say she has a decent claim on it.