Close the Rhys / Mist gap please!

Middle (14) (T-6)
Mist
Marcia
Heather
Brom (T - HP, Skl, Spd, Def)
Tauroneo (N/T)
Brom
Soren (T - Mag, Skl, Spd, Res)
Rhys (N/T - Mag, Skl, Res)

They're both playing practically as healbots, and I'd still value Rhys's capability of being able to chip the opponent relevant (hello 23 Mag). Yes Mist will escape her doubled rut faster than Rhys, and the mounting is still a win. But to say that Rhys shouldn't be much closer to Mist seems slightly ridiculous IMO.

4 characters, 3 that aren't even really comparable (Marcia/Heather/Tauroneo), is not a big gap. Given the differences between the two, I'd say that makes sense.

I think I'm missing something, because I count 6 characters.

Paperblade wrote:I think I'm missing something, because I count 6 characters.

I don't count (T) versions unless one or both of the characters we're talking about is one since they don't affect the placements of other units. In this case, I would look at it as if he had copied it from the list without the (T) versions. If he wants to argue, say, Rhys > Soren (T), that's a different story. Think of (T) versions as sort of an extension of the normal tier list, one reason why the specific tiers are numbered separately for (T) units.

Why does Mist>Rhys in the first place? It's 1 mov vs actual damage potential before Mist promotes, then it's Horse+Canto vs damage potential, but doesn't Part 4 have a shitload of Terrain, canceling Mist's only win?

Mist is locked to Ike's group, which fortunately (I guess) has the least terrain. But if she promotes before 4-4, she has to go around the long way to Restore our Sleep'd units, who are probably facing the biggest risk of death. So it's unlikely for her to promote before 4-4, although the earliest she can is 4-1 unless she's somehow to 21. The move gap is also reduced back to 1 (although she does get canto and insane promo boosts, which are nice), which hurts since that's the main reason she wants to promote.

Considering Mist is getting like 1 level per chapter, I don't see her Speed growth doing wonders for her avoiding doubles (The gap won't grow by 1 until like 3-7 or 8...).

So the move gap is 1 until Part 4, which even if we promote her in 4-1, doesn't matter much because Rhys could easily be with another group.

I struggle to see any sort of gap, let alone Transfers Mist somehow warranting a tier gap,

sPortsman wrote:Why does Mist>Rhys in the first place? It's 1 mov vs actual damage potential before Mist promotes, then it's Horse+Canto vs damage potential, but doesn't Part 4 have a shitload of Terrain, canceling Mist's only win?

It's not just 1 move. She can be Shoved easier as well (IIRC, Rolf and Soren are two who can Shove Mist but not Rhys, and a few more later joiners as well). It makes her much more reliable in a pinch. Also better affinity (Def >>> Hit) and she avoids getting doubled sooner.

I struggle to see any sort of gap, let alone Transfers Mist somehow warranting a tier gap,

Mist (T) avoids getting doubled even sooner due to her Spd boost, including 5 enemies in her joining map already (technically six, but he OHKOs), making 6 enemies in 3-P that ORKO Rhys but not Mist. The benefits of this advantage should be obvious.

Well Rhys > Soren should be one to look at, but it merely boils down to healing vs. sometimes doubling the slowass enemies and slightly better durability. Soren requires EXP in order to even come close to being a healer and, on top of that, could cost us a crown within the process.

She can be Shoved easier as well (IIRC, Rolf and Soren are two who can Shove Mist but not Rhys, and a few more later joiners as well). It makes her much more reliable in a pinch.

Rhys is still shovable by a bunch of people. The list is right here:

- Nephenee
- Brom
- Lethe (Transformed)
- Mordecai (+ he can smite)
- Ike
- Boyd
- Shinon
- Gatrie
- Mia
- Ranulf
- Kyza
- Raisin
- Janaff (Transformed)
- Ulki

That's like... 80% of the GMs cast right there. The only ones who technically can't are:

- Soren
- Mist
- Rolf
- Untransformed Lethe + Lyre
- Untransformed Janaff

Pretty much the bottom of the barrel units here (barring Janaff who's likely staying transformed). The being easier to shove likely lasts for 2 chapters at best (3-P and 3-1) where it's just Soren and Rolf.

Also better affinity (Def >>> Hit) and she avoids getting doubled sooner.

Fire may not be the best, but Hit is still welcome. We can still be thrown into Worst Biorhythm and the opponent could be... well, anywhere else. Gatrie w/Steel Poleaxe manages 103 Hit, 118 with Ike's Authority. Under worse biorhythm conditions and units usually average ~50 Avoid, Gatrie can fall slightly over the 50% chance to hit something. With C Rhys in effect, this at least changes to 58%. B, eventually, could change it to 63. Now I'm not saying Gatrie wants a Rhys support and vice-versa, but the extra accuracy can still be a slight advantage to have.

and she avoids getting doubled sooner.

I do have to agree with Paperblade here: unless we pour massive favoritism it isn't going to happen lickity split unless we have Transfers on her, which the one I'm arguing doesn't.