Early Sealing

Maybe it's got some merit?

10/1 Meg
27 HP, 14 Str, 10-11 Skill, 13-14 Speed, 13 Luck, 14 Def, 11 Res. 33-35 Hit, 39-41 avoid, 5 crit. S Swords, D Lances. Holy affinity.

12/1 Aran
28 HP, 14-15 Str, 16-17 Skill, 12-13 Speed, 7-8 Luck, 15 Def, 5 Res. 39-42 hit, 31-34 avoid, 13 crit. S Lances, Thunder affinity.

Rather comparable, his only serious win is the 8 more crit, since no S rank spears exist until after the DB finished their parts.

Couple things to note.

1. Meg has more luck, so no crit chances on her.

2. Meg has more speed, so she is doubled far less often.

3. Meg has the same move, and neither see any real sort of move penalty till the bog.

4. Meg has 2 weapon choices to Aran's 1. She's now able to use whatever Aran can, furthering the boost to her offense and capabilities. Her multiple choices of ranged weapons and her Holy affinity grant her accurate range. Hey, Aran can't use the brave sword, either. Not that Meg should ever have it, but it's something she can do that Aran can't.

5. Lol, needs to C support Nolan just to generally tie Meg's base. In fact, Eddie's got similar avoid at this point in time (level 13, he'd have 46 avoid), didn't we agree he can put Earth to good use too?

6. Aran does have an advantage that can be pretty dooming to all this despite, that being his Thunder affinity and extra defense and HP. Despite having numerous advantages against him, his one solid one can make all this pale in comparison. He also gives more avoid, generally making him a better support partner for others, cause Thunder absolutely devestates Holy.

7. Aran does have the extra crit...

But as you can see here, they are very close in comparison. Why seal them early?

Well...Why not? Both aren't exactly gonna go into part 4, so it's not like they're gonna take a crown with them. they might as well help make part 4 easier for the people you WILL be using in part 4, if any. f you aren't, well it's still helping make part 1 easier in the least.

EDIT: Woops, mean she has D lances, not A. Still, forge steel, you get silver's might, no big deal.

My question is if Sealing + Paragon is better or near-equal to non-promoted unit gaining CEXP.

Depends I guess on what level they would be. If they could be level 5, from what I'm seeing, they'd be fine.

My question is if this will have any impact on the current tier list. I can't see what's given here as anything significant enough to make a change. Also, Meg gets E Lances on promotion, not D, and even if it was D, Steel is C, so still no Steel forge right away.

EDIT: Hm, it looks like that was covered in the other topic.

Red Fox of Fire wrote:My question is if this will have any impact on the current tier list. I can't see what's given here as anything significant enough to make a change. Also, Meg gets E Lances on promotion, not D, and even if it was D, Steel is C, so still no Steel forge right away.

Well no doubt that Meg's start is god awful, but with her leveling speed, I could see her level 10 by 1-6-1, at least with the fact she starts off level 3 fighting laguz. Takes babying, but it's the DB team...

As for that whole thing, it was explained in another thread. Plenty of arms scrolls lying around, you can't even forge steel till 1-E, which after a scroll could allow her to pull it off, despite not doubling.

I suppose the change it would give is that from the looks of it, nothing can double 14 AS for a good while, so Meg does actually say she can see real improvement in a time frame. I suppose the difference between Aran and her is that she can avoid being crit'd and isn't doubled by myrms, who do laughable damage (4 to her, only 3 to him, but they double. Even with a C or B support, they'd double and do the same, but the point is that he'd need a support AND he can still be critical hit). While she might not be as tough, from the looks of 1-6-1, still plenty 2RKO both, and both can easily survive what the other can. the difference is just 10 avoid, which helps reduce enemy hit to coin flips (or at least closer than Aran can). She'd need a support for it, but at least she could pull off something close.

I suppose it's possible for her to be over Astrid, since she still needs training to be of null use, whereas Pelleas can just be crowned instantly for minimal use.

EDIT: edit ninja'd...

Grandjackal wrote:Maybe it's got some merit?

10/1 Meg
27 HP, 14 Str, 10-11 Skill, 13-14 Speed, 13 Luck, 14 Def, 11 Res. 33-35 Hit, 39-41 avoid, 5 crit. S Swords, D Lances. Holy affinity.

12/1 Aran
28 HP, 14-15 Str, 16-17 Skill, 12-13 Speed, 7-8 Luck, 15 Def, 5 Res. 39-42 hit, 31-34 avoid, 13 crit. S Lances, Thunder affinity.

Meg has gained 7 levels while Aran has only gained 5, despite her offense and defense being noticeably worse than everyone ekse does, Aran included, he has better 1-2 range and she only has 5 move when Chapter 1-5 is desert and 1-6-1 and 1-6-2 are rushing?

Uh, yeah, that's so likely.

It's also possible (not saying that it's likely) for Aran to have access to Tauroneo's Silver Lance (not like Tauro needs it) by the later chapters of Part 1. It's as likely as that 1-4 crit chance everyone loves to hype, since nobody else even wants Discipline.

New comparison for 1-7, which is being generous, because Meg getting 7 levels in this time-frame when she has all of that going against her seems unlikely to me:

10/1 Meg (C Ilyana): 27 HP, 14 Defense, 10 Res
w/ Steel Sword: 23 ATK, 130 Hit, 13 AS, 39 Avoid, 5 Crit, 13 Dodge
w/ Wind Edge: 20 ATK, 105 Hit, 13 AS, 39 Avoid, 5 Crit, 13 Dodge
w/ Iron Lance (assuming that it is, in fact, D lances and not E swords): 21 ATK, 130 Hit, 13 AS, 39 Avoid, 5 Crit, 13 Dodge

15/1 Aran (C Nolan): 30 HP, 18 Defense, 6 Res
w/ Steel Lance: 26 ATK, 124 Hit, 13 AS, 44 Avoid, 28 Crit, 8 Dodge
w/ Javelin: 23 ATK, 109 Hit, 13 AS, 44 Avoid, 28 Crit, 8 Dodge

So, Aran wins HP, Defense, ATK, hit with 1-2 range, avoid, and crit.
Meg wins Res and Dodge.
They tie AS.

Well, that's not much without enemy stats, right? Well, let's check.

Oh, and Meg can not crit, so I won't list her crit chance.

1x Fighter lvl 15 (Hand Axe)
HP 33, Atk 26, AS 13, Hit 106, Avo 34, DEF 11, RES 3, Crit 7, Ddg 8

Meg is 3RKO'd. She 3RKOs with Steel.
Aran is 4RKO'd. He 2RKOs with Steel with 20 crit.

1x Fighter lvl 16 (Steel Axe)
HP 34, Atk 28, AS 15, Hit 114, Avo 39, DEF 11, RES 4, Crit 7, Ddg 9

Meg is 2RKO'd. She 3RKOs.
Aran is barely 3RKO'd. He 3RKOs with 19 Crit.

4x Soldier (Steel Lance, two have droppable Door keys)
HP 29, Atk 24, AS 14, Hit 114, Avo 36, DEF 12, RES 7, Crit 6, Ddg 8

3RKOs Meg. Meg 3RKOs.
5RKOs Aran. Aran 3RKOS, though if he had any type of attack support, he would 2RKO with 20 Crit.

1x Myrmidon lvl 15 (Steel Sword)
HP 27, Atk 20, AS 17, Hit 125, Avo 42, DEF 9, RES 5, Crit 13, Ddg 8

3RKO Meg. Meg 2RKOs.
8RKO Aran with 5 crit, but he only does 2 damage per hit, so it doesn't really matter at all, and it's possible for Aran to have Fortune now, since nobody else even wants it. Aran 2RKOs with 20 Crit, so he might just blast the guy before he attacks, too.

1x Myrmidon lvl 16 (Steel Sword)
HP 28, Atk 21, AS 18, Hit 126, Avo 45, DEF 9, RES 5, Crit 13, Ddg 9

2RKOs Meg. Meg 2RKOs.
5RKOs Aran with that crit chance, but I already covered that. Aran 2RKOS with 19 Crit.

1x Myrmidon lvl 16 (Iron Blade)
HP 27, Atk 22, AS 18, Hit 111, Avo 45, DEF 9, RES 5, Crit 13, Ddg 9

2RKOs Meg. Meg 2RKOs.
4RKOs Aran, again, with a crit chance. Aran 2RKOS with 19 Crit.

1x Wind Mage lvl 14 (Wind)
HP 24, Atk 18, AS 12, Hit 122, Avo 31, DEF 5, RES 11, Crit 5, Ddg 7

4RKOs Meg. Meg 2RKOs.
3RKOs Aran. Aran 2RKOs with 21 Crit.

1x Fire Mage lvl 14 (Elfire)
HP 22, Atk 20, AS 11, Hit 114, Avo 29, DEF 6, RES 12, Crit 5, Ddg 7

3RKOs Meg. Meg 2RKOs.
3RKOs Aran. Aran 2RKOs with 21 Crit.

2x Fire Mage lvl 16 (Elfire)
HP 24, Atk 21, AS 13, Hit 117, Avo 34, DEF 6, RES 12, Crit 6, Ddg 8

3RKOs Meg. Meg 2RKOs.
2RKOs Aran. Aran 2RKOs with 20 Crit.

1x Wind Mage lvl 15 (Elwind)
HP 24, Atk 21, AS 12, Hit 119, Avo 31, DEF 6, RES 12, Crit 5, Ddg 7

3RKOs Meg. Meg 2RKOs.
2RKOs Aran. Aran 2RKOs.

1x Archer lvl 14 (Steel Bow)
HP 27, Atk 25, AS 13, Hit 119, Avo 35, DEF 11, RES 5, Crit 7, Ddg 9

3RKOs Meg. Meg 3RKOs.
5RKOs Aran. Aran 2RKOs with 19 Crit.

2x Archer lvl 16 (Steel Bow)
HP 28, Atk 26, AS 16, Hit 121, Avo 41, DEF 11, RES 6, Crit 8, Ddg 9

3RKOs Meg. Meg 3RKOs.
4RKOs Aran. Aran 2RKOs with 19 Crit.

1x Archer lvl 15 (Iron Longbow)
HP 28, Atk 24, AS 14, Hit 106, Avo 37, DEF 11, RES 5, Crit 8, Ddg 9

3RKOs Meg. Meg 3RKOs.
5RKOs Aran. Aran 2RKOs with, you guessed it, 19 Crit.

2x Armor Axe lvl 16 (Hand Axe, one has stealable Vulnerary)
HP 33, Atk 25, AS 14, Hit 109, Avo 39, DEF 17, RES 7, Crit 7, Ddg 11

3RKOs Meg. Meg 6RKOs.
5RKOs Aran. Aran 4RKOs with 17 Crit.

2x Armor Lance lvl 15 (Steel Lance)
HP 33, Atk 26, AS 13, Hit 117, Avo 37, DEF 16, RES 6, Crit 6, Ddg 11

3RKOs Meg. Meg 5RKOs.
4RKOs Aran. Aran 4RKOs with 17 Crit.

1x Armor Lance lvl 14 (Steel Lance)
HP 33, Atk 25, AS 12, Hit 115, Avo 35, DEF 15, RES 6, Crit 6, Ddg 11

3RKOs Meg. Meg 5RKOs.
5RKOs Aran. Aran 3RKOs with 17 Crit.

1x Armor Lance lvl 13 (Javelin)
HP 32, Atk 22, AS 11, Hit 97, Avo 32, DEF 15, RES 6, Crit 5, Ddg 10

4RKOs Meg. Meg 4RKOs.
8RKOs Aran. Aran 3RKOs with 18 Crit.

And fuck the boss.


Aran beats Meg against everything except durability against the mages, in which he can just chug a Pure Water if he actually cares, and not only does he actually beat her in concrete offense, he has pretty awesome crit chances against everything, so he can just blick random enemies, which Meg can't do.


Meg sucks even with an early promotion.

Why does Aran have C Nolan instead of A Laura? If we're going to give him an affinity that he doesn't want, at least give him the one that's so fast he potentially has A.

I'm assuming he is assuming Nolan due to 3-6, but I'm not sure.

I don't think you can forge Steel weapons until 10 anyway... unless I'm mistaken (probably am). So they're both likely running around with forged Iron.

Paperblade wrote:Why does Aran have C Nolan instead of A Laura? If we're going to give him an affinity that he doesn't want, at least give him the one that's so fast he potentially has A.

I'm not quite sure. People have argued Nolan x Aran in the past, and it seems to have stuck, so...

ChaosNinji wrote:

Paperblade wrote:Why does Aran have C Nolan instead of A Laura? If we're going to give him an affinity that he doesn't want, at least give him the one that's so fast he potentially has A.

I'm not quite sure. People have argued Nolan x Aran in the past, and it seems to have stuck, so...

That's exclusively for Nolan. It doesn't really help Aran. I don't quite know what does, to be honest. What help does Leo give? +2mt, +1def (gets 2 from A Nolan anyway, so 3 - 2 = 1), inferior avo to what Nolan gives? Does +2mt let Aran 2HKO (thus, 2RKO) instead of 3HKO (thus, 3RKO) often enough to be worth more than getting Nolan +2 def in part 3? Besides, Aran is as fast or faster with Nolan than anything but Laura. Laura is faster, though. They are both 01s but Laura has the ability to use staves on Aran, and will likely need to do so along the way. And since Ed and Aran are unlikely to be in play at the same time, getting Ed to support Nolan for Nolan to get the +def doesn't happen when Aran is in play.

Aran might like +hit for javelins, but I'd still wager that getting a +2 def for Nolan is superior. So if Leo goes with Nolan then he isn't going with Aran anyway (meaning no +mt for Aran), and Nolan can't usually go with Ed when Aran is in play, so I'm left with Aran + Nolan. I suppose Leo x Nolan and Aran x Laura gets Aran his hit, but then Leo needs to be deployed in 1-7, 1-8, 1-E. Or at least one of those three to make getting the A for 3-6 easier. But consider that Aran mostly cares about using Javelins before his def growth kicks in, since counters don't bother him much when he has 18 def or more. And by the time Laura x Aran hits an A he might no longer care about avoiding counters. Until then, it is just +5 hit or +3 hit.

The +30 avo (well, +15 over A Laura) might help to reduce the amount of healing that Aran needs in part 3 after tiger hits, so it isn't completely useless. Even one less healing needed out of 5 attacks could be worthwhile.


Basically, if you can find something that really helps Aran a lot, give him that. Otherwise, the team is probably happier if Nolan gets Aran. I don't think +5 hit to Aran's Javelins overrides the part 3.

Actually I'd argue Nolan X Miccy better... but I dunno how much better Miccy gets.

Colonel M wrote:Actually I'd argue Nolan X Miccy better... but I dunno how much better Miccy gets.

I love Nolan x Micky, personally.

I don't think it's efficient, though. Personally I start it in 4-P and poor Nolan gets stuck with 2 move in 4-3 and has to be carried around after turn 2 to do anything of interest. I give him paragon in 4-E-1 to make up for it, but it's still not likely efficient over all. Also, until Micky hits 30 AS and 40 luck she's still not get all that great avo. But you aren't likely getting 27 AS at 20/1 without resets. Maybe you can get 25 instead of 23.3 thanks to late bexp in tier 2, but I can't imagine much beyond 25 without resets. Then it takes a while to get her up to stuff. Also it severely hurts Nolan's early part 4 since he doesn't have very good durability this way (C only gives +1 mt + 10 avo and no stars with Micky). However, he does have Tarvos, so it isn't horrible.

I suppose having an A from 1-7 or so would mean his part 4 wouldn't suffer, but I'm still heavily in favour of making Nolan reach 3RKO from 39 mt tigers (and later 41mt tigers) ASAP. So, +def support. Not sure how much he needs the +2 mt from Micky. If there are multiple situations where the +2 mt gets him a kill in part 1 after some other unit weakens where an Ed or Aran support would leave an enemy alive, sure I could be convinced of its merits. Otherwise, I think +def is best.

Also, making Micaiah a viable enemy phase unit (and thus Nolan's earth not going to waste on her) means she'll need a seraph robe (minimum). I, of course, give her the 1-8 one, but that's because I have this thing about making Lords as useful as possible without hurting the team too much.

Eh, the Avoid helps him a little bit but I see what you mean. Usually I just toss the Dracoshield on Nolan anyway and it'll strike 20 Def by 20/1 w/Tarvos. But yeah, maybe if I pick up HM for this game I'll look at how viable Miccy X Nolan support is (I'm assuming just tear Sothe's way and start building with Chuck).