Sety [Lex] and Rana

Two things strike me as very odd. First, Sety's Offense suddenly sucks and elite and staves is not making him better than him better than Hawk let alone Arthur [Azel]

Rana's position is way to low considering she is your only competant staff user for a LONG time and can easily promote by chapter 8 outweight Nanna's omg awesome 20 Hp+~6 she heals, Unless Nanna [Azel].

Also consider Nanna isn't doing anything meanful the entire chapter 7 anyways.

Two things strike me as very odd. First, Sety's Offense suddenly sucks and elite and staves is not making him better than him better than Hawk let alone Arthur [Azel]

I don't have time to go indepth but I'll just say this, you're exaggerting how much Sety's offense "sucks". He's stuck at constant 2RKOing with no skills to fall back on like NoishSety. That's not GOOD, but it's not "sucking" when ArthurAzel can't really beat that.

With a 20 might tome and 20 magic (which Arthur easily reaches by promotion) or even a 14 might tome Arthur actually is able to 1RKO all physical enemies in chapter 9-10, if put under Wrath Dark mages are also 1RKOed (not that this is safe, but...I'm saying that Sety is definitely not 1RKOing anything besides those dragon knights consistently).Since mount is overhyped in this game (which I disagree with), having a mount negates Sety having B staves, since supposedly Arthur is now fighting drastically more enemies he can 1RKO.

Hawk ought to beat Sety [Lex] too.

Looking closer at the list I have no clue why Tinny [Azel] is a whole tier below Hawk especially if she is able to promote by the next chapter. And become basically a sage with worse caps.

The issue of Rana is not responded to so... is she moving up or should I spend more time going in depth

Apparently Julia can't use Staves now.

Edit: And LexSety still has Continue because Sage is bullshit, and with the power of lolwind, that's still like 40-45% Continue depending on his level.

Then again, his attack is like barely better than Leaf's (Sage doesn't have A in anything so he's stuck at El, which is like 31 attack), and I've already shown that Leaf with Tornado is pretty much a complete waste of effort vs. anything with Res, which happens to be like 50% of the crap in 10 and Epilogue, and LexSety has less Speed and no Crit. So I don't see it helping much unless you throw him a magic ring, which lets him 2HKO most mounted enemies.

Paperblade wrote:Apparently Julia can't use Staves now.

Edit: And LexSety still has Continue because Sage is bullshit, and with the power of lolwind, that's still like 40-45% Continue depending on his level.

Then again, his attack is like barely better than Leaf's (Sage doesn't have A in anything so he's stuck at El, which is like 31 attack), and I've already shown that Leaf with Tornado is pretty much a complete waste of effort vs. anything with Res, which happens to be like 50% of the crap in 10 and Epilogue, and LexSety has less Speed and no Crit. So I don't see it helping much unless you throw him a magic ring, which lets him 2HKO most mounted enemies.

I'm glad you brought up Julia; while it is true she can use staves, her costs are too expensive because she can't inherit staves, loses to fast enemies in the arena, and can't inherit rings to sell. However, this was the reason Corple [Levn] was argued out of the existance because his staff spamming was apparently too expensive so he never promotes by the Epilouge in an "efficient playthrough". Nevermind forget about this until I start arguing for the existance of Corple [Levn] on this tier list again.

My point on Rana is the entire tier difference between her, Julia, and Nanna [Azel] is too much. Especially, when Rana is one of the fastest leveling units in the second generation and Libro staff is enough to mitigate any points Nanna gets for having 7 move (9 move later)

While it is true on face value 2HKOing seems like good offense, remember Arthur is consistantly 1RKOing physical units, while mounted. There is no reason Sety [Lex] should be above Arthur nor Hawk. Even Tinny[Azel] has a strong case against him. If she can promote in time, she completely smokes him (both have B staves, but Tinny has Aranks in thunder and fire as well as much better magic)

Brighton wrote:While it is true on face value 2HKOing seems like good offense, remember Arthur is consistantly 1RKOing physical units, while mounted. There is no reason Sety [Lex] should be above Arthur nor Hawk. Even Tinny[Azel] has a strong case against him. If she can promote in time, she completely smokes him (both have B staves, but Tinny has Aranks in thunder and fire as well as much better magic)

Sety[Lex] has ~22 base spd and Elwind has 2 wt and Lightning has 5 wt. How much doesn't he double? 2HKOing => ORKOing most of the time for him ("=>" means "implies", it is not screwing up greater than or equal to). But a magic ring may be too much to ask for. (I have to wonder what the point of giving Sage B Light was. It's not like there is a way to get minor Narga for any sages.)

Of course, with Elwind he has 40% continue at base, so 3HKOing while doubling means 64% ORKO.

I guess Azel can afford to buy Thoron from Tiltyu, and she can even give him some of the proceeds from the selling if not. But Arthur starts as a mage with minor Fala and minor Tordo. C Wind, B Fire, B Thunder. No Thoron until promotion. Until then, 10 magic, 50% growth, and 14 mt, 7 or 12 wt tomes. And 10 - 7 or 10 - 12 speed with a 70% growth. How much does he 100% ORKO without needing wrath?

I'm glad you brought up Julia; while it is true she can use staves, her costs are too expensive because she can't inherit staves, loses to fast enemies in the arena, and can't inherit rings to sell.

As opposed to not even being able to arena? Libro costs as much as Live to buy, and healing instead of attacking with Resire only costs an extra 100g for that turn. I assume you're talking about Libro, because Julia basically starts with Relive, Reserve is A (which Rana doesn't have), and other stuff isn't useful until other healers start showing up (such as Restore).

However, this was the reason Corple [Levn] was argued out of the existance because his staff spamming was apparently too expensive so he never promotes by the Epilouge in an "efficient playthrough". Nevermind forget about this until I start arguing for the existance of Corple [Levn] on this tier list again.

IIRC, tt wasn't a gold issue, but a "He's not getting enough EXP to promote so why should he exist as opposed to every other Corplol". He couldn't use Reserve because Priest has B and Reserve is A... I guess there's like Warp and shit, but again, Julia at least has some semblance of self sustaining income and isn't spending a thousand gold every turn doing nothing but self improving. At least she's killing stuff/healing.

As opposed to not even being able to arena? Libro costs as much as Live to buy, and healing instead of attacking with Resire only costs an extra 100g for that turn. I assume you're talking about Libro, because Julia basically starts with Relive, Reserve is A (which Rana doesn't have), and other stuff isn't useful until other healers start showing up (such as Restore).

Holy crap, Corple's in bottom? I could have sworn...

IIRC, tt wasn't a gold issue, but a "He's not getting enough EXP to promote so why should he exist as opposed to every other Corplol". He couldn't use Reserve because Priest has B and Reserve is A... I guess there's like Warp and shit, but again, Julia at least has some semblance of self sustaining income and isn't spending a thousand gold every turn doing nothing but self improving. At least she's killing stuff/healing.

Sylvia gives Blaggi Blood, he'll always have A staffs simply because he came out of his mother's vagina, which is a constant, unlike the father.

Grandjackal wrote:

IIRC, tt wasn't a gold issue, but a "He's not getting enough EXP to promote so why should he exist as opposed to every other Corplol". He couldn't use Reserve because Priest has B and Reserve is A... I guess there's like Warp and shit, but again, Julia at least has some semblance of self sustaining income and isn't spending a thousand gold every turn doing nothing but self improving. At least she's killing stuff/healing.

Sylvia gives Blaggi Blood, he'll always have A staffs simply because he came out of his mother's vagina, which is a constant, unlike the father.

Which is why the difference between Corpl[Claude] and Corpl[Levin] at first is just 15000 gp or less (if the inherited reserve staff has <10 uses remaining). If he ever promotes he can at least do something better. Since the promotion issue seems to be a stumbling block, how many turns of Holsety would he need to outweigh 15000 gp?

Narga_Rocks wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:

IIRC, tt wasn't a gold issue, but a "He's not getting enough EXP to promote so why should he exist as opposed to every other Corplol". He couldn't use Reserve because Priest has B and Reserve is A... I guess there's like Warp and shit, but again, Julia at least has some semblance of self sustaining income and isn't spending a thousand gold every turn doing nothing but self improving. At least she's killing stuff/healing.

Sylvia gives Blaggi Blood, he'll always have A staffs simply because he came out of his mother's vagina, which is a constant, unlike the father.

Which is why the difference between Corpl[Claude] and Corpl[Levin] at first is just 15000 gp or less (if the inherited reserve staff has <10 uses remaining). If he ever promotes he can at least do something better. Since the promotion issue seems to be a stumbling block, how many turns of Holsety would he need to outweigh 15000 gp?

Considering 15,000 gp is a full 10 more uses of Reserve, I'd say more than he can compensate with Holsety for when he would finally promote, if he even could.

Grandjackal wrote:

Narga_Rocks wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:

IIRC, tt wasn't a gold issue, but a "He's not getting enough EXP to promote so why should he exist as opposed to every other Corplol". He couldn't use Reserve because Priest has B and Reserve is A... I guess there's like Warp and shit, but again, Julia at least has some semblance of self sustaining income and isn't spending a thousand gold every turn doing nothing but self improving. At least she's killing stuff/healing.

Sylvia gives Blaggi Blood, he'll always have A staffs simply because he came out of his mother's vagina, which is a constant, unlike the father.

Which is why the difference between Corpl[Claude] and Corpl[Levin] at first is just 15000 gp or less (if the inherited reserve staff has <10 uses remaining). If he ever promotes he can at least do something better. Since the promotion issue seems to be a stumbling block, how many turns of Holsety would he need to outweigh 15000 gp?

Considering 15,000 gp is a full 10 more uses of Reserve, I'd say more than he can compensate with Holsety for when he would finally promote, if he even could.

My question is not whether or not it is possible. If he had just started able to use Holsety but still had to pay 15000 gp for Reserve he'd probably be > Corpl[Claude]. My question is how many turns are necessary. Not whether or not he'll get that many turns. It's a theoretical question, not a question that necessarily relates to the Corpl[Levin] that actually exists. Whether the real one can get those turns is not related to my question.

I knew I was forgetting something.

It doesn't change anything though, since he still has to buy Reserve as Levin can't pass it down, and it doesn't change the fact that Reserve is a whopping 1.5k per turn on a unit that can't arena at all. Julia spends ~400 per turn and can at least get halfway (if not further, Resire is pretty uber).

How much gold do you think Rana is inheriting anyway? Eden is completely reliant on Dew+Villages for gold, and has no skills+C magic with poor caps after promotion, so her arena is gonna be really bad, so the only rings she's gonna realistically get are from villages, which limits her to... Bargain, and like half the cast would like that puppy (plus it's out of the way for Miss 5 Move). She's passing down, liek, Libro, and what else? You're basically suggesting we have Eden get like 20-50k gold worth of items so that Rana has gold that's not from a Thief/villages (as to prevent me from saying "Why can't Julia get the gold").

Narga_Rocks wrote:
Sety[Lex] has ~22 base spd and Elwind has 2 wt and Lightning has 5 wt. How much doesn't he double? 2HKOing => ORKOing most of the time for him ("=>" means "implies", it is not screwing up greater than or equal to). But a magic ring may be too much to ask for. (I have to wonder what the point of giving Sage B Light was. It's not like there is a way to get minor Narga for any sages.)

Of course, with Elwind he has 40% continue at base, so 3HKOing while doubling means 64% ORKO.

I guess Azel can afford to buy Thoron from Tiltyu, and she can even give him some of the proceeds from the selling if not. But Arthur starts as a mage with minor Fala and minor Tordo. C Wind, B Fire, B Thunder. No Thoron until promotion. Until then, 10 magic, 50% growth, and 14 mt, 7 or 12 wt tomes. And 10 - 7 or 10 - 12 speed with a 70% growth. How much does he 100% ORKO without needing wrath?

Thoron is dropped by Ishtar in chapter 7 right? Arthur [Azel] has half a chapter in 6, a full chapter in 7, and most of 8 to contribute. Its not unlikely that he can easily promote by chapter 9 where Sety does his main contributions anyway. I'm not saying that Sety [Lex] should drop to bottom, I'm just saying his position relative to Arthur does not make sense.

At promotion Arthur can 1RKO all physical non-bosses in chapter 9-10 without the magic ring consistantly. He also win availibility. He also wins move when both exist.

Not needing magic ring >needing magic ring
Mount> no mount
Existing >not existing.

Edit: Sheesh, the Corple [Levn] stuff I was going to argue about was a joke, but if people really want to argue it...

I have trouble seeing Corple actually needing money. For one, who else even needs money that much at the point of time? Corple can inherit a return ring from Levn, who actually will likely be rich and can afford to send his son useless junk like rings and staves like live which he can sell too, to buy a reserve staff to be 'useful'. The chapter 9 village also has a barrier ring, but it may be a stretch to given him to sell. Its like in FE5 giving Ambush to Olwen or letting FE6 Thany get some kills so she can promote by the western Isles. Except this times its money so he can staff spam.

Now for a strawman argument about who else needs money:
Its not like Faval needs money since he doesn't counter, Shannan and Aless might need some extra money, but Corple does't prevent them from having lovers in Lachke and Leen respectively. Also its not like they have to be using their holy weapons 24/7 either

Narga_Rocks wrote:
My question is not whether or not it is possible. If he had just started able to use Holsety but still had to pay 15000 gp for Reserve he'd probably be > Corpl[Claude]. My question is how many turns are necessary. Not whether or not he'll get that many turns. It's a theoretical question, not a question that necessarily relates to the Corpl[Levin] that actually exists. Whether the real one can get those turns is not related to my question.

Well I how do you usually get Corple promoted by the Finale?

He always starts with the libro staff and he joins at the halfway point of chapter 9. Its concieveable he can around 5 levels from the libro staff and live staff if he inherited it. The rest depends on if you really are willing to invest in him (the tier list assumes you do). Give him the warp staff for chapter 10 and you can have him warp your foot units to the first castle. He can gain around 6 more levels this way (along with healing injured units too of course). While your mounts go conquer the second castle, you can gain up to six more levels for him through saving civilians, it'll take at least 3 turns though. Have him repair all his staves in the castle and then wait once the barrier comes down after Celice conquers the second castle. He can help with healing and restoring (if you bought him the rest staff) Lets say he gains 2 more levels on his way to the third castle. On the fourth castle you have to wait to get Celice, the tyfling anyway so you might as well bring Corple along too. To save up to 6 more children. He can also warp any units you won't be using to take on Alvis later too along with helping with healing too of course. He can easily gain up to 10 more levels until the fourth castle is seized.

Conclusion after some favoring: 30k (warp and libro repairing/buying) + 12 civilians =>Corple reaches level 30 by epilouge. I don't think you really lose much turncount either, so theoretically I think you don't really lose many turns that you would have taken to finish chapter 9/10 than you usually would.

Paperblade wrote:I knew I was forgetting something.
How much gold do you think Rana is inheriting anyway? Eden is completely reliant on Dew+Villages for gold, and has no skills+C magic with poor caps after promotion, so her arena is gonna be really bad, so the only rings she's gonna realistically get are from villages, which limits her to... Bargain, and like half the cast would like that puppy (plus it's out of the way for Miss 5 Move). She's passing down, liek, Libro, and what else? You're basically suggesting we have Eden get like 20-50k gold worth of items so that Rana has gold that's not from a Thief/villages (as to prevent me from saying "Why can't Julia get the gold").

Edin's arena is actually surprisingly good. IF you let her use a wind tome, 51 Evade coming from 35 might that hits with 100+ accuracy is enough to get through the chapter 4-5 arena with a little luck.

I feel like this is a issue similar to that of using Olwen and using Thany from other games. Why not give her bargain? Who else gets more out of this resource than Rana? Who else can't fight until Corple appears? Who else has everything she will have everything she will need until promotion and more at turn 1 in chapter 6. What is this half the cast you speak of that wants it, but actually makes good use of bargain.

Edit: Yes I know I triple posted

Conclusion after some favoring: 30k (warp and libro repairing/buying) + 12 civilians

Jesus Christ, stop tossing him all the civilians every goddamn time you try to argue CorpleLevin. His shit mov can't save them all even if you WANTED to, this has been covered.

Now look, this isn't even about Sety/Rana anymore. But I guess you just had to open that can of worms a fucking GAIN.

sPortsman wrote:
Jesus Christ, stop tossing him all the civilians every goddamn time you try to argue CorpleLevin. His shit mov can't save them all even if you WANTED to, this has been covered.

Now look, this isn't even about Sety/Rana anymore. But I guess you just had to open that can of worms a fucking GAIN.

I'm NOT making an argument if you read what I was replying to. He asked IF it was possible to have Corple reach promotion while staying at low turns. If you didn't notice, I admitted that it required him getting some civilians and favoring. I didn't even claim this was efficient, it was just some Per. Exp.

Besides I had already made a post saying why Arthur [Azel] was better than sety [Lex] and I touched on Rana. What was the issue on moving to a different thing that came up?

Well, actually I was trying to completely ignore whether or not he can promote.

I was asking how many turns of Holsety use he'd need to override 15000 gp. 10 turns of Holsety? 20 turns of Holsety? Or is it not enough even if he could start with Holsety?

I was trying to ignore the issue of what it takes to promote him and how quickly he could reasonably promote.

Narga_Rocks wrote:Well, actually I was trying to completely ignore whether or not he can promote.

I was asking how many turns of Holsety use he'd need to override 15000 gp. 10 turns of Holsety? 20 turns of Holsety? Or is it not enough even if he could start with Holsety?

I was trying to ignore the issue of what it takes to promote him and how quickly he could reasonably promote.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. To respond to this question I feel like depends on how much weight is placed into financial funding in this game. I personally feel like that 15k isn't much since money since it is so easy to get, but this is just my opinion and others would disagree