What about other tactics games, such as Shining Force, or Robot Wars?

Or should this just be a Fire Emblem board, as to avoid the site from getting too big?

Just a curious suggestion is all.

I'm for it and would discuss a SRWOG1 or 2 Tier list.

This forum was intended for FE really...maybe an Other Games board or something if demand is big.

It's up to Mekkah really but I can run the Shining Force ones. My only issue is there isn't an exact average stat method which means I have to base it off personal experience.

Well, there IS a way to calculate averages, however the problem is the geniuses at SEGA decided to have characters grow via progress by line chart rather than the simple RNG we Fire Emblem fans know and love. I got two sites, and unfortunately one is unreliable because A. It was basing on level 30 promo stats at the end of the game, and 2. It was based on observation and not actual averages. However, there is a way to calculate it. Since it would be hte only data we got, we'd take the projected endgame stats, their bases, look at what kind of graph they have for each stat, and decide when they feel boosts as the game progresses.

A nightmare, but it's not my fault they didn't keep it simple.

Mekkah wrote:This forum was intended for FE really...maybe an Other Games board or something if demand is big.

Sounds good to me.

Agreed, this board might get quite cluttery otherwise. :V Maybe it could be in subforums of Other Games to avoid front page messes. But... do we have to change the name?!

jumpluff wrote:Agreed, this board might get quite cluttery otherwise. :V Maybe it could be in subforums of Other Games to avoid front page messes. But... do we have to change the name?!

Nah, it's still about Fire Emblem. Other Games can be treated like SF's: a general topic.

"Other Games" subforum would suffice. Here's how I would envision it, but it's really up to Mekkah:

- Post the game's tier list and have it stickied
- Have the title of the nominated moving look like this: [SF2] - Peter > Bowie
- ???
- Profit!

Sounds reasonable to me!

Apparently nobody here has played the DS's easiest SRPG, Luminous Arc, so looks like it won't affect me anyway.

Man, an SRW Tier List with our current thinking on availability is going to be so weird...

Magus wrote:Man, an SRW Tier List with our current thinking on availability is going to be so weird...

Yeah but I'm having a difficult time with SF.

The main thing is its RNG is nothing like Fire Emblem's, so a lot of it is merely based on personal experience or looking at some terrible charts that explain... literally nothing at all. I had a random idea to try and play through a game and collect "stats", but of course the main issue is the RNG can still tilt toward blessing and screwing.

Colonel M wrote:

Magus wrote:Man, an SRW Tier List with our current thinking on availability is going to be so weird...

Yeah but I'm having a difficult time with SF.

The main thing is its RNG is nothing like Fire Emblem's, so a lot of it is merely based on personal experience or looking at some terrible charts that explain... literally nothing at all. I had a random idea to try and play through a game and collect "stats", but of course the main issue is the RNG can still tilt toward blessing and screwing.

The thing about this is that the game has a pattern in that generally it keeps stat gains static, as in unless your growths fault in a specific place, you're generally bound to always get at least a point for each stat. So at worst, you get a point over or a point under for "blessing and screwing". Well, for SF2 at least, SF1's level up system seems almost completely random. SF2's is at least semi-predictable. Blessing would be at least a point above, and for the most part early on for those who have the most levels to gain, they would only get 1 point per stat for most of their early time. Assuming at least 40 levels in some form (be it 20/20, or 30/10 or something like that), it would basically you have a range within 80, a middle ground at the 40 spot would be about average. This would be for the earliest of the early, like those that join before like...before Rhode shows up.

So if stat collecting is indeed to be an issue, it's only REALLY an issue far later in the game, when you've accumulated more mattering level ups to the point where a difference can be felt, of which the difference would be either 40 above or below the medium.

So really you would just take their base, take their projected end, and have about a guestimate range of 40 above or below, lower if you have fewer levels to gain, and each level below endgame projecting, you remove another guestimate number, and that number gets smaller as you go back in time.

Basically the thought is like this, for SF2 at least. Chester ends up still pretty good endgame. Lots of HP for magitanking, still hits pretty damn hard, and being a centaur's a pretty nice deal. However, Higgins has a tendency to end up very close to the same thing Chester would be at endgame. Bit less HP, like a few points of Str less, and that's it. So while Chester can boast that he has more time to be of use, as the game drags on, his fate becomes more and more uneasy, as later in the game he has a greater chance to end up screwed. True he can end up blessed, but what Higins would average out of, he's still already good, having something stronger would be overkill. The difference is that Higgins has less levels to be screwed out of than Chester, so even if he DOES get screwed, he goes form great to decent. Chest on hte other hand has the potentially to end up vastly screwed, making him what one would call a risky investment. So while Chester has time and ends up good, Higgins still has the "I can replace you" card to play.

Basically, Stability vs. Risk.

If you're wondering how you could get such readings, I got an excel sheet I found on a shining force website if you're interested.

Let's see that excel sheet if you have it.

jumpluff wrote:Agreed, this board might get quite cluttery otherwise. :V Maybe it could be in subforums of Other Games to avoid front page messes. But... do we have to change the name?!

Nah. If there isn't a place to post threads about other games, how can the board be cluttered with them?

; )

If we go along with this, you gonna post your GSC Tier list Mekkah?

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/index.php?showtopic=10769

It's in the first post. Don't mind what the dude says in the rest of the post, just look over the stat sheet, let's do the estimate work, then the guestimate ranges, and work our way from there. These guys have been going on nothing but speculation as well, thus why they say things like "Higins sucks".