Gordon>George

Gordon-11
34 HP, 7 Str, 7.5 Speed, pretty much the only stats that matter for an archer. If you wanna account for durability against things that will counter, Gordon's got 9 Def. I can say that Gordon will have rank for silver by the time he shows up.

George base
24 HP, 7 Str, 12 Speed, 8 Def

So both double armors for the same damage, but George can't double anything Gordon can't. To double the common threat, George needs 5 levels. Gordon 5 levels and a seal. Seems more expensive for Gordon, but Gordon is leveling faster due to being unpromoted.

16/1 Gordon
35 HP, 10 Str, 14 Skill 14.3 Speed, 10 Luck, 11.5 Def, 3 Res, Draug and Marth support. 19+20 hit, whatever avoid, 7+10+10 crit (sniper bonus)

3 George
24.8 HP, 7.4 Str, 11 Skill, 12.8 Speed, 4.4 Luck, 8.2 Def, 3 Res. 13 Hit, whatever avoid, 5+10 crit

11 HP, 3 Str, 2 Speed, 3 Def, 6 Luck (better to attack snipers with, or Thoron mages, as stupid as it sounds), most likely never going to miss, 2-12 more crit.

Basically on average, Gordon will tie by chapter 10. However, as soon as a seal lands on Gordon's lap, Gordon trumps George forever. On top of this, Gordon's had that nifty earlygame utility.

So yeah, how's George above him now? Those are astounding leads Gordon's got.

I'd be looking more at Gordin's earlygame vs Jeorge's Ch 9-10, personally. At first glance I suppose I'd side with Gordin, Jeorge costs a number of turns or a use of Warp to even recruit in the first place.

CAT5 wrote:I'd be looking more at Gordin's earlygame vs Jeorge's Ch 9-10, personally. At first glance I suppose I'd side with Gordin, Jeorge costs a number of turns or a use of Warp to even recruit in the first place.

How exactly does it cost turns to recruit George? It might be the long way around, but there's barely anybody in their path (you didn't send Marth to the right alone, did you?). Left side is cramped with people. They'll reach the boss at generally the same time. Difference is, going to the right nets us a free silver and steel bow.

Speaking of Gordon having that 14 AS, you can forge George's silver bow in favor of having to waste Parthia early on.

Turns or Warp. Recruiting Jeorge in Ch. 9 requires one of those two things. It has nothing to do with who you send with Marth, the fact of the matter is that you can clear the Seize faster than Marth can walk to Jeorge and back.

Interceptor wrote:Turns or Warp. Recruiting Jeorge in Ch. 9 requires one of those two things. It has nothing to do with who you send with Marth, the fact of the matter is that you can clear the Seize faster than Marth can walk to Jeorge and back.

Sacrificing two turns to save a warp use and getting us free shit sounds like a perfectly fine exchange.

Either way, if George isn't worth recruiting to begin with, then Gordon should definitely be above him for not requiring such sacrifices.

The point of buffing up is to cut turns and.or be more efficient. There's a Silver Bow in Ch. 10. If recruiting Jeorge for his bow doesn't save us the X turns it took to get it, then what was the worth of it to begin with?

Interceptor wrote:The point of buffing up is to cut turns and.or be more efficient. There's a Silver Bow in Ch. 10. If recruiting Jeorge for his bow doesn't save us the X turns it took to get it, then what was the worth of it to begin with?

Well, there are a couple dracos and pegs in chapter 10 before we can buy the things.

But either way, good point. It's not like you can't have someone block the fort's doorway, then run through the back to get to the boss.

It depends on whether you value Gordin's earlygame contribution (which is often overrated beyond belief) more then Jeorge's join time contributions, because you'd have to be stupid as hell to use either past the few chapters after they become available.

IOS wrote:It depends on whether you value Gordin's earlygame contribution (which is often overrated beyond belief) more then Jeorge's join time contributions, because you'd have to be stupid as hell to use either past the few chapters after they become available.

What contribution? Chapter 10, you can just have someone block the fort's front door and run back to kill the boss.

He's basically Gordon with 2 more move, and when Gordon seals, that problem vanishes instantly. George is basically Gordon if he were weaker and less important.

I don't see any substantial reason George should be above Gordon. Gordon has utility that actually helps, Gordon has availability, and Gordon ends up better than him if you decide to use him seriously. George's only advantage is that he doesn't use a seal. Woopie.

Grandjackal wrote:

IOS wrote:It depends on whether you value Gordin's earlygame contribution (which is often overrated beyond belief) more then Jeorge's join time contributions, because you'd have to be stupid as hell to use either past the few chapters after they become available.

What contribution? Chapter 10, you can just have someone block the fort's front door and run back to kill the boss.

He's basically Gordon with 2 more move, and when Gordon seals, that problem vanishes instantly. George is basically Gordon if he were weaker and less important.

I don't see any substantial reason George should be above Gordon. Gordon has utility that actually helps, Gordon has availability, and Gordon ends up better than him if you decide to use him seriously. George's only advantage is that he doesn't use a seal. Woopie.

I'll keep my turncounts and master seal, thank you.

IOS wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:

IOS wrote:It depends on whether you value Gordin's earlygame contribution (which is often overrated beyond belief) more then Jeorge's join time contributions, because you'd have to be stupid as hell to use either past the few chapters after they become available.

What contribution? Chapter 10, you can just have someone block the fort's front door and run back to kill the boss.

He's basically Gordon with 2 more move, and when Gordon seals, that problem vanishes instantly. George is basically Gordon if he were weaker and less important.

I don't see any substantial reason George should be above Gordon. Gordon has utility that actually helps, Gordon has availability, and Gordon ends up better than him if you decide to use him seriously. George's only advantage is that he doesn't use a seal. Woopie.

I'll keep my turncounts and master seal, thank you.

Then Gordon's utility>George's, since neither are gonna be used past their utility points.

Jeorge is not worthless. There are still situations where weakening is useful, and Jeorge is not stuck moving at a five. If anything, his weakest point is slowing down Ch. 9.

Jeorge can have some kind of utility forever thanks to his class, and be at least as useful during Ch10 as Gordin is during Ch1. For Gordin, I have to make significant investments, just for him to be marginally better than Jeorge, but at that point we are no longer talking about efficient play.

Did you not consider that there are roughly ten billion other people I can throw that seal on who use it better?

Oh, and lmao @ 16/1 Gordin at C10. I'll be amazed if Gordin can break 10 due to his shit stats and even worse move.

Fine fine, so move works against Gordon in that regard that badly.

Suppose that and the seal are enough to keep Gordon from rising any higher.

EDIT: @Portsman: I said in the OP that Gordon would be level 11 by chapter 10, level 16 is obviously further into the future.

Interceptor wrote:Jeorge is not worthless. There are still situations where weakening is useful, and Jeorge is not stuck moving at a five. If anything, his weakest point is slowing down Ch. 9.

I was under the impression that characters were not punished for their joining situation. please correct me if that fact has changed or w/e

ardan wrote:

Interceptor wrote:Jeorge is not worthless. There are still situations where weakening is useful, and Jeorge is not stuck moving at a five. If anything, his weakest point is slowing down Ch. 9.

I was under the impression that characters were not punished for their joining situation. please correct me if that fact has changed or w/e

I'm pretty sure in FE7, it's the cause of what punishes Karla so badly.

..Granted she still sucks, but the method to recruit her certainly wasn't helping.

Grandjackal wrote:

ardan wrote:

Interceptor wrote:Jeorge is not worthless. There are still situations where weakening is useful, and Jeorge is not stuck moving at a five. If anything, his weakest point is slowing down Ch. 9.

I was under the impression that characters were not punished for their joining situation. please correct me if that fact has changed or w/e

I'm pretty sure in FE7, it's the cause of what punishes Karla so badly.

..Granted she still sucks, but the method to recruit her certainly wasn't helping.

Different scenario really. You aren't forced to train anyone below par to use george, except for marth but the game pratically forces you to use him anyway, so the pint is moot. I dunno, the scenario seems different to stuff like Karla/Karel etc. I'll ask Mekkah about it next time I see him on IRC. sounds good?

Sounds good to me. The difference only seems to be a couple of turns, and we do benefit with a free silver bow we don't have to pay for (which would allow more forging).

I suppose if just one bow isn't enough to make a difference, then George technically would be slowing us down in order to recruit him.