Skepticism on Gatrie's Crown

Again, more of a curious thing. Wasn't here when he jumped to high, so if you could clarify...

1. Who's to say he gets a crown over Titania or Haar? This will be explained in my next point more, but these two seem far better cantidates due to movement+Canto. Oh, we can ust BEXP Gatrie?

2. He needs to hit his speed cap to double after promotion consistantly, which requires 3 levels. 3 BEXP levels could make Titania not even needed to be trained. On top of this, 3 BEXP levels is ludicrously expensive. Why is it suddenly perfectly fine for Gatrie to eat up that many levels, especially when he's not as worthy as Titania?

3. Next crown has to be stolen from the DB. That's not a bad thing in itself, but it does kill a quick finish opportunity for the DB (Taur crown bomb 3-12), in case you don't care to use any DB past their part.

4. Next crown doesn't come until 3-9, which is getting a bit late for 25 AS to be effective. There might be people more worthy of it (be it versatility or move issues, or just are better than Gatrie by now), unless we're also throwing a wing Gatrie's way.

My issue with Gatrie isn't that he needs a crown, he can put it to good use. The issue is he needs the FIRST crown. Even with it, he would still need BEXP to keep his speed consistant throughout part 3, even part 4. Then, this first crown is taken from Titania, who I believe could have a better call on taking it than Gatrie.

So, who's to say Gatrie gets the first crown?

Because Haar and Titania want a Speedwing before a crown, and Gatrie doesn't. Also, there's generally no need to BEXP him, he's not ridiculously high level or anything.

Interceptor wrote:Because Haar and Titania want a Speedwing before a crown, and Gatrie doesn't. Also, there's generally no need to BEXP him, he's not ridiculously high level or anything.

Titania could also make due with BEXP.

But what I assume is that Gat getting the first crown is overall cheaper? Cheaper it may be, but is it necessarily more effective?

Take a look at Gatrie's muscles. If he's doubling, he's probably ORKO'ing. And since it's Gatrie, he does it whilst also never dying. This is generally considered a good thing, and it's why Titania/Haar get Winged if they are played, in an efficient run. Their crowns can wait, because they are not really capping SPD in tier 2.

Grandjackal wrote:Again, more of a curious thing. Wasn't here when he jumped to high, so if you could clarify...

1. Who's to say he gets a crown over Titania or Haar? This will be explained in my next point more, but these two seem far better cantidates due to movement+Canto. Oh, we can ust BEXP Gatrie?

2. He needs to hit his speed cap to double after promotion consistantly, which requires 3 levels. 3 BEXP levels could make Titania not even needed to be trained. On top of this, 3 BEXP levels is ludicrously expensive. Why is it suddenly perfectly fine for Gatrie to eat up that many levels, especially when he's not as worthy as Titania?

3. Next crown has to be stolen from the DB. That's not a bad thing in itself, but it does kill a quick finish opportunity for the DB (Taur crown bomb 3-12), in case you don't care to use any DB past their part.

4. Next crown doesn't come until 3-9, which is getting a bit late for 25 AS to be effective. There might be people more worthy of it (be it versatility or move issues, or just are better than Gatrie by now), unless we're also throwing a wing Gatrie's way.

My issue with Gatrie isn't that he needs a crown, he can put it to good use. The issue is he needs the FIRST crown. Even with it, he would still need BEXP to keep his speed consistant throughout part 3, even part 4. Then, this first crown is taken from Titania, who I believe could have a better call on taking it than Gatrie.

So, who's to say Gatrie gets the first crown?

I'm not bothering with this unless you actually attempt to counter some (preferably all) of the pre-existing arguments on SF. Just go to SF, find a post by Interceptor (anywhere on the site) and click on the link in his signature about opportunity cost. When you get there, read the post. If you still aren't convinced, go back a couple of pages and start reading. When you get back to my post, if you still aren't convinced, keep reading.


Also, where do you even get 3 levels of bexp from? Are you telling me that Gatrie can't gain a single level between 3-P and 3-4? [British accent]Are you mad?[/British accent]

Interceptor wrote:Take a look at Gatrie's muscles. If he's doubling, he's probably ORKO'ing. And since it's Gatrie, he does it whilst also never dying. This is generally considered a good thing, and it's why Titania/Haar get Winged if they are played, in an efficient run. Their crowns can wait, because they are not really capping SPD in tier 2.

Wing for crown/BEXP for Ti gets the same speed Gatrie would get, and Titania in the mean time would only have 2 less Str. Is 2 Str truly the difference between killing and not? Because that+still decent durability+movement+Canto>Gatrie getting crowned early.

But I suppose it's clearing it up. I was just getting a bit skeptical.

And I haven't seen a counter been posted on Serenes. Besides, it's more just learning the situation better than me actually arguing against it. Relax Narga.

Grandjackal wrote:

Interceptor wrote:Take a look at Gatrie's muscles. If he's doubling, he's probably ORKO'ing. And since it's Gatrie, he does it whilst also never dying. This is generally considered a good thing, and it's why Titania/Haar get Winged if they are played, in an efficient run. Their crowns can wait, because they are not really capping SPD in tier 2.

Wing for crown/BEXP for Ti gets the same speed Gatrie would get, and Titania in the mean time would only have 2 less Str. Is 2 Str truly the difference between killing and not? Because that+still decent durability+movement+Canto>Gatrie getting crowned early.

But I suppose it's clearing it up. I was just getting a bit skeptical.

Read the posts. Pay particular attention to Titania's inability to climb ledges and traverse river tiles. Or the number of levels she is away from promotion and how far away Gatrie is. And the fact she still needs to pull 24 AS before promotion if you want her half as good as Gats would be (may not happen by 3-4 even with a wing), and how Gatrie requires basically no bexp to pull off 23 AS.

Narga_Rocks wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:

Interceptor wrote:Take a look at Gatrie's muscles. If he's doubling, he's probably ORKO'ing. And since it's Gatrie, he does it whilst also never dying. This is generally considered a good thing, and it's why Titania/Haar get Winged if they are played, in an efficient run. Their crowns can wait, because they are not really capping SPD in tier 2.

Wing for crown/BEXP for Ti gets the same speed Gatrie would get, and Titania in the mean time would only have 2 less Str. Is 2 Str truly the difference between killing and not? Because that+still decent durability+movement+Canto>Gatrie getting crowned early.

But I suppose it's clearing it up. I was just getting a bit skeptical.

Read the posts. Pay particular attention to Titania's inability to climb ledges and traverse river tiles. Or the number of levels she is away from promotion and how far away Gatrie is. And the fact she still needs to pull 24 AS before promotion if you want her half as good as Gats would be (may not happen by 3-4 even with a wing), and how Gatrie requires basically no bexp to pull off 23 AS.

I get it, yeesh! Was just asking to clear things up, but apparently I have to ask the right way next time...

Grandjackal wrote:I get it, yeesh! Was just asking to clear things up, but apparently I have to ask the right way next time...

So, next time you'll say something like:

"Can someone direct me to the posts on SF justifying Gatrie's early crown so I can read up about it?"

Narga_Rocks wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:I get it, yeesh! Was just asking to clear things up, but apparently I have to ask the right way next time...

So, next time you'll say something like:

"Can someone direct me to the posts on SF justifying Gatrie's early crown so I can read up about it?"

Pardon me for not reading people's sigs...

But if it's that set in stone, guess I can't argue against it, can I? See, this stopped me from doing something quite a bit dumber, like actually attempting to justify Titania getting the crown over Gatrie.

This saves time, gets people less riled up, and doesn't end up with me deeply shamed. Everyone wins!

Grandjackal wrote:

Narga_Rocks wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:I get it, yeesh! Was just asking to clear things up, but apparently I have to ask the right way next time...

So, next time you'll say something like:

"Can someone direct me to the posts on SF justifying Gatrie's early crown so I can read up about it?"

Pardon me for not reading people's sigs...

But if it's that set in stone, guess I can't argue against it, can I? See, this stopped me from doing something quite a bit dumber, like actually attempting to justify Titania getting the crown over Gatrie.

This saves time, gets people less riled up, and doesn't end up with me deeply shamed. Everyone wins!

No, I see the point of it. Ask first why Gats gets the thing, and if you don't like the reasoning then try to argue for another character to get it.

But I'm not asking you to read everyone's sig before trying to make a point.

And it's not necessarily "set in stone". I happen to think it may as well be, but there have been multiple holes in arguments made by me in the past, so it is remotely possible for someone to come up with a good counter to Gatrie getting the crown. I just don't think that this one in particular is very likely to face a meaningful counter.

Narga_Rocks wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:

Narga_Rocks wrote:

Grandjackal wrote:I get it, yeesh! Was just asking to clear things up, but apparently I have to ask the right way next time...

So, next time you'll say something like:

"Can someone direct me to the posts on SF justifying Gatrie's early crown so I can read up about it?"

Pardon me for not reading people's sigs...

But if it's that set in stone, guess I can't argue against it, can I? See, this stopped me from doing something quite a bit dumber, like actually attempting to justify Titania getting the crown over Gatrie.

This saves time, gets people less riled up, and doesn't end up with me deeply shamed. Everyone wins!

No, I see the point of it. Ask first why Gats gets the thing, and if you don't like the reasoning then try to argue for another character to get it.

But I'm not asking you to read everyone's sig before trying to make a point.

And it's not necessarily "set in stone". I happen to think it may as well be, but there have been multiple holes in arguments made by me in the past, so it is remotely possible for someone to come up with a good counter to Gatrie getting the crown. I just don't think that this one in particular is very likely to face a meaningful counter.

Especially from me. Not anytime soon anyways, seems solid to me.

Very well. Question answered.

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