Fire Emblem Genesis

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So who thinks Vyland should fall to lower mid?

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Instead of going in depth for reasons I won't bring up for the sake of everyone's nerves, I have decided instead of trying to bring up any data of my own (which lately has been disregarded constantly on the basis of "it's me who's saying it" ), I would simply ask what other's thoughts are on this.

I say he could stand to go below Wrys, but that's just me. I'm also sure if I try to bring up any reason, it'll just be blown off, so what are your thoughts?

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I certainly think it's possible, since his performance is terrible at base level, but not without a better examination as to why he is in Mid in first place (which I believe deals with Cavalier -> Sniper or some such) and examination of how he levels up.

I can only take so much tl;dr face value comparison bombarding on IM. I'll probably unblock you tomorrow or something.

EDIT: Below Chiki will likely work best, since people wanted her above Vyland anyway.

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Just tell me that then, just say "stop with the tl;dr, if it bothers you start a topic", don't just block me without a word like I somehow pissed you off for no apparent reason.

I'll just put it simply, Mage Wrys has 9 mt on basically everything due to magic damage, outdoing any ranged combat you could possibly have at this point in time outside of Maric and Wendel tossing Excalibur and Thunder around. On the other hand, Vyland's strongest option is the Steel Lance, which is 14 mt. However, it's 9 weight, he has 5 Str and 6 Speed, meaning he gets weighed down to 2 speed. I should note that Gordon by the time Vyland is part of your team and not in huge amounts of danger, Gordon should have gained 5 levels (it HAS been 5 chapters), and gotten C rank for +1 Mt. 6 Str, 8 from Steel and +1 from rank is 15 might, so Vyland has to start doing sub-Gordon damage at melee, susceptible to counters, which will get him doubled by anything not an armor knight, which means he would be killed. I will give examples.

30 HP
18 atk [lance/sword] 20 atk [armorslayer]
86/102/107 hit [Armorslayer/Lance/Sword]
9 AS
7 def

I bring this up to point out the AS. The real might they pack is

Cav: 21 atk, 91/92 hit for steel lance, 82 hit and 20 atk for javelin guy.

Not that it matters, as when weighed down by even 1 AS, he would get ORKOd with his 20 HP and 7 Def base. A javelin has 7 weight, so even if you were to give him that, you couldn't let him be attacked, and you are packing 12 mt. Uhhhh, 7-5 damage at the greater risk of death is not helping anyone on this threat.

Peg:
29 HP
19 atk
92 hit
13 AS
5 def

Oh my, ORKOd off the bat. We pretty much HAVE to use a javelin, which is 7 damage, a 5RKO. Then again, you might as well just have Zag/Wolf shoot this thing down.

Lvl 3 archer:
30 HP
19 atk
93 hit
9 AS
7 def

Gufaw! Vyland can't equip a javelin on this thing, or he's doubled and thus killed. If he's caught with a javy or steel, he's dead. Again, only 7 with the strongest damage ain't cutting it.

Armor lvl 3:

34 HP
23 atk
92 hit
4 AS
12 def

Only 2 damage cause he's not doubling. Anything weaker, he does no damage. On top of that, he has to take a counter to do damage.

Uhhhh, Wrys has 9 base damage (4 base Mag, 5 mt from Fire). He's able to outdamage him on every type, at range. You might notice that Vyland needs range just to not get murdered to do something resembling relevent damage. This would require someone to fly it over to him. 12 mt with javelin accuracy is Gordon with Iron at that time with the ability to miss. Vyland with Steel is weaker than Gordon with Steel, and requires he gets countered more often than not. It's a cold day in hell when Gordon is performing better than you earlygame (or maybe Gordon doesn't suck after chapter 3 and is just merely average).

So it gets better for good buddy Vyland, right? Not really. His Str growth is barely improving faster than Gordon's. Gordon's already doing 1 more damage than him generally, and avoiding the counter. By the time Vyland gets to C rank, Gordon should be at B. Vyland can only hope to tie Gordon until Gordon nabs silver, which I have discovered can happen quite easily by the time George shows up, despite his "bad performance". You could say Ridersbane, but let's think that through. 30 battles, chapter 5 and 6 he blows (chapter 6 is chapter 5, except there's a silver lancer with 27 ATK who can OHKO him). Chapter 6x is axe heavy. Chapter 7 and 8 I doublt he has C rank with his crappy performance, and chapter 9 is axe HEAVY. I'll assume level 11 for chapter 10.

11 Vyland
26 HP, 8 Str, 5 Skill, 10 Speed, 5 Luck, 8 Def

Cav 5:

33 HP
26 atk
103 hit (lance) 108 hit (sword)
9 (10) AS
8 (9) def
0 (1) res

Cav 7:

35 HP
25 atk
103 hit
10 AS
9 def
1 res

With C rank and Ridersbane effectiveness, he has 33 mt. 24 damage, in exchange he's now in danger. Now I could forge, OR

11 Wrys Mage with his 7-8 Magic, possible C rank, and Shiver tome would have 15-16 might, and I could just chip that and generally let anyone else who wields the damn thing to kill just as well without a counter.

11 Gordon could have B here, as I have found out in using him. With it, he would have 7 Str, 12 from Silver, and +1 from rank. 11 damage sure, but it's enough to allow this dude to kill without a counter, or generally anyone else who holds it. George has the same Str base and would have the same rank, so it's not like George is doing any better. We should also note Gordon didn't need a promotion item to do identical to a prepromote. He also has 7 speed, so he avoids being doubled, 24 HP and 9 Def allows him survival if attacked, and allows him to attack javelin guys head on. Without the Ridersbane, he's stuck with Steel and Javies, which now he would have 17 and 15 mt respectively, which is still generally worse than Gordon with steel (16 mt). 8 damage needing to take a counter, or doing worse damage than both at range is not doing good.

This is the one Ridersbane you have I should note. Wrys is using basic tomes, and Gordon when I used him just barely was able to nab that Silver by now, so I highly doubt anyone else (even Kashim, at least for tidbit) is even gonna be able to use it. Wrys and Gordon are doing their job with basic weapons/weapons only they can use at that time.

I'll assume that these people waiting for a promotion is torture, so I'll promote them early at 13.

13/1 Vyland Cav-Draco
29 HP, 11 Str, 9 Skill, 11 Speed, 5 Luck, 11 Def, 3 Res. Axes. If he's screwed of a Def, he is 2RKOd unless she whips out an axe for 18 mt.

13/1 Gordon Arch-Sniper
25 HP, 9 Str, 12 Skill, 13 Speed, 8 Luck, 10 Def, 3 Res, close to A rank. Should note that Gordon can actually double slower end cavs.

13/1 Wrys Mage-Sage
24 HP, 3 Str, 9 Mag, 9 Skill, 7 Speed, 6 Luck, 3 Def, 8 Res, having whatever staff rank he has back. Those guys had generally 25 mt, meaning he can take a counter, throwing back 17 mt with Blizzard.

Even if I were to change Vyland to paladin, he would suffer being doubled by these guys.

Sniper:

40 HP
23 atk
114 hit
15 AS
8 def
3 res

Horseman:

33 HP
22 atk
107 hit
15 AS
6 def
3 res

Of which Sniper Gordon can avoid being doubled, along with countering.

Gordon could also of note OHKO the pegasi in chapter 11,

Cav:
34 HP
27 atk, 2 less for javelins
103 hit
10 AS
8 (9) def
0 (1) res

Merc:
32 HP
25 atk
112 hit
14 AS
6 (7) def
0 (1) res

Riff is able to cut these guys in half at range, the merc especially since people have a hard time doubling 14 AS.

Personally, I don't think Vyland deserves to be a tier above Riff or Gordon in the least.

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I'm going to go ahead and drop him below Chiki, but I seriously decided that post wasn't worth reading when I saw "Mage Wrys".

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FE3_Player wrote:I'm going to go ahead and drop him below Chiki, but I seriously decided that post wasn't worth reading when I saw "Mage Wrys".

9 base mt on everything is outdoing all ranged combat off the bat outside of Maric with Excalibur, and Wendell. It takes a while for people to start doubling. Even Abel needs to be level 15 before it starts happening consistantly (as in having 14 speed). Wrys has time to build rank, and has a 40% magic growth. It's not like he's getting any better as a healer when you have so many, he might as well be put to other uses if he can, ya?

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