Fire Emblem Genesis

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Move is Overrated

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1 Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:12 pm

Canto is nice. However, I do believe we overrate move. Allow me to describe.

Basically move means how important you are in PART of a chapter, not all of it. Granted it's much more important in Gen 1 than 2 (chapter 1 is good until the forest of which they are at the forest first despite being slowed down severely), chapter 3's bargain ring being a fate decided by mounts, and the fact chapter 5 is pretty much over after Langbart), but it still has the aspect of "mounts can't be everywhere" deal. It's especially true for this game due to map size and how the game functions.

Chapter 2's a perfect example. It's huge, but also road heavy. Gets the mounts up north quick. The map is theirs for this time. However, thanks to roads and the hugeness of the map, it still takes about 22 turns to take over McBeth (dickhead general with the defense ring...). I have gotten Arden to the ring and back to Mackeley in that time, ready to fight in that particular battle. The mounts are still all the way back in McBeth. Now you might say "Sigurd still has to march his ass all the way back", and I say he could take Mackeley almost lightning quick thanks to the foot soldier effort without the need of mounts thanks to the Return Staff, as Evans is closer to Mackeley than McBeth. You could do this with other mounts, but this doesn't stop the fact that Sigurd is first priority, and they will be a turn behind Sigurd. By the time they arrive with Sigurd, the action's already over.

Chapter 3, Madino and Silvall. One's north, one's west. One is far away enough to require mounts. The other is perfect for the foot soldiers. Ethlin returns Sigurd for Silvall, Edin Warps him back to Madino afterwards. Ogrehill I suppose is for the mounts. Though as a note to help the chapter go faster while reaping ultimate reward, Warping Dew to Madino and returning Bridget for Edin to talk to that much easier. Either way you can warp whoever you want to Madino simply because it's better to wait for the Wind Sword (hey, it's helping someone).

Chapter 4, Mounts have north, but foot soldiers have south. It's hard not to justify this. The only excuse is Return Staff.

Chapter 5...Well, the chapter's pretty much over after you beat Langbart.

Ok, so mount is nice, but there are times where foot soldiers are you only option. Essentially, think it this way. For some castles, your deployed units are mounts, with a couple foot soldiers. Other castles it's foot soldiers. Both cannot be with one another at times due to different missions. At times mounts can't do anything because they are too far away.

Ok, maybe I have come to the weirder conclusion of this topic. I think Ethlin and Edin should be a bit higher simply due to nature, map function, and that Return/Warp speeds up things immensely. Ethlin is pretty much the reason Sigurd is able to be everywhere (and some other mounts), Edin is the same except it's when foot soldiers are the main group rather than mounts.

Like..Ethlin in top and Edin in upper mid. I don;t see Bowulf able to pull off Warping hax, which shaves a good number of turns off. Ethlin in top due to nautre, Return, and such saff use helping Bridget get her ungodly weapon while still completing hte map efficiently. Return staff makes chapter 2, 3 and 4 go by like greased lightning.

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2 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:32 pm

So basically you've pretty much reinforced the fact that Mounted units have an advantage for 1/2 or more of a map while foot units usually have to wait for incoming enemies in a different direction...

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3 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:38 pm

Hey, you might be on to somethi-


Ethlin in top

Get the fuck out.

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4 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:44 pm

ThunderMan wrote:So basically you've pretty much reinforced the fact that Mounted units have an advantage for 1/2 or more of a map while foot units usually have to wait for incoming enemies in a different direction...

It's not really an advantage, because the other half the mounts are too far away. It's like a catch 22. Foot soldiers during that other half of "waiting" are helping out their part of a chapter just as much as mounts would be in their parts. It's not really an advantage when you're not helping the other half of the map. You can't have both I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Granted for some first generation, it does sort of favor mounts in the sense that it gives you the prize of a Bargain Ring in chapter 2, and that they still go through the forest faster since they got there first (though foot soldiers I've had catch up, all while not slowing myself down. Even Azel got there, meaning Arden could too. Granted, not having a range option at that time makes it a bad choice for Arden who should go north and just start punching Augustrians in the face). Chapter 1 is rather chaotic in nature of which I'd say it's a hard call and just say both cooperate beautifully, and chapter 5 the chapter's pretty much over after Langbalt. 2 (save the bargain ring), 3 and 4? Both are equal pay off you could say. I suppose it's a bit hard to explain...

However, my conclusion for this is that the Warp and Return staff are better than you think for these maps, as it helps Sigurd capture castles that much faster, and can help aliveate the "I can't make it to the next source of action" problem. Therefore it really effects Edin and Ethlin more.

@Ninji: Go take McBeth, Return Sigurd to Evans and look how much closer to Makeley he is. Take Madino, return him to Agusty, see how much closer he is to Silvall. Return Bridget, look how closer she is to Edin. Return Sigurd back to Sylesia's home base castle, look how closer to the south castle he is after the loooong treck north.

Do you see how much effort and time she saves you? This IS an efficiency list after all, correct?I don't see many who are just able to use a staff and just shave turns off like that except for Edin during the foot soldier moments.

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5 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:55 pm

Grandjackal wrote:
Go take McBeth, Return Sigurd to Evans and look how much closer to Makeley he is.

That would be... one or two turns, at most? It's not like he can solo the damn castle.


Take Madino, return him to Agusty, see how much closer he is to Silvall.

This is just common sense, though, again, it's one or two turns, at most.


Return Bridget, look how closer she is to Edin.

Um, returning Briggid probably makes the thing longer, unless you want to have Aideen sit around and do shit at the home castle, which is anti-efficiency.


Return Sigurd back to Sylesia's home base castle, look how closer to the south castle he is after the loooong treck north.

you do realize that ethlin leaves after chapter 3

right

RIGHT


Do you see how much effort and time she saves you? This IS an efficiency list after all, correct?

A few turns, which other staff users can do as well, and better, at times (Troubadour/Female Paladin has C staves, Warp is B).


I don't see many who are just able to use a staff and just shave turns off like that except for Edin during the foot soldier moments.

Aideen, who has access to Warp as well, Diadora (Warp), Claude, Falcon Knight!Fury, Sage!Levin, Master Knight!Lachesis...

Uh, yeah. It's not even that much to start, and yet these guys can all do it, too.

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6 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:11 pm

[quote="ChaosNinji"]
Grandjackal wrote:
That would be... one or two turns, at most? It's not like he can solo the damn castle.

Mor elike around 4, even 5. Evans is THAT close by.

Are you talking of Mackeley? Of course he can't solo it. That's why your foot soldiers are there to handle it by the time he shows up. This also allows him to show up and perhaps aid them with his awesomeness. Sigurd is top priority due to castle capturing. Even a single turn, another mount might not see the action.


This is just common sense, though, again, it's one or two turns, at most.

I do not see others shaving off turns just with a single action.


Um, returning Briggid probably makes the thing longer, unless you want to have Aideen sit around and do shit at the home castle, which is anti-efficiency.

Well you need SOME healer for Silvall, she'll be there to warp Sigurd, now explain to me how she gets all the way up to Bridget.


you do realize that ethlin leaves after chapter 3

right

RIGHT

*facedesk* pardon, memory lapse.


A few turns, which other staff users can do as well, and better, at times (Troubadour/Female Paladin has C staves, Warp is B).

Simply due to map order and having a mount, Return is all she needs. No idea why you think Ethlin needs Warp. She gets that for free.


Aideen, who has access to Warp as well, Diadora (Warp), Claude, Falcon Knight!Fury, Sage!Levin, Master Knight!Lachesis...

Uh, yeah. It's not even that much to start, and yet these guys can all do it, too.

Edin-Dur, she's part of my want to get her to upper mid, due to free staff.

Diadre-Money? Explain how she gets the money for Warp for the one chapter she can actually use it.

Claude-Again, money.

Falco Fury-Tad late, don't ya think? Granted she can get the return staff for the same effect, but Ethlin's gone by then.

Sage Levin-A foot soldier is a foot soldier. By the time he can use warp, it's most likely Sylesia or further. He can't keep up with Siggy, so he obviously can't warp him. Chapter 5, what use is warping anyone aside from Levin himself to Yied to get him closer to Leptor?

Master Knight Lachesis-Again, tad late, dont ya think? By then, it's probably the return staff she would use, of which is available since it's not like Ethlin's using it.

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7 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:19 pm

Grandjackal wrote:
I do not see others shaving off turns just with a single action.
I see the Return Ring in the way of your hype.

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8 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:30 pm

Grandjackal wrote:
Mor elike around 4, even 5. Evans is THAT close by.

Um, no. It's the Return Staff, not the Warp.

durr hurr


Are you talking of Mackeley? Of course he can't solo it. That's why your foot soldiers are there to handle it by the time he shows up. This also allows him to show up and perhaps aid them with his awesomeness. Sigurd is top priority due to castle capturing. Even a single turn, another mount might not see the action.

Uhhh...

You aren't going to be getting to the castle with Beowulf and Voltz and all of those others knights so quickly that your units are never going to reach them. They have to fight off Elliot's group.


I do not see others shaving off turns just with a single action.

How about anyone who can kill things, something which Ethlin is horrible at? When you kill an enemy, you're allowing for progress through the game, just like Warping.

Look for a second who is above Ethlin.

You claim that move is not that big of a deal, but everyone who is above Ethlin is an unmounted rape-face. It's a clear contradiction.


Well you need SOME healer for Silvall, she'll be there to warp Sigurd, now explain to me how she gets all the way up to Bridget.

I assumed that the healer at Silvall was going to be, you know, ETHLIN, since she has a better chance of reaching it while still being able to get some action at the first castle.


*facedesk* pardon, memory lapse.

Yeah.


Simply due to map order and having a mount, Return is all she needs. No idea why you think Ethlin needs Warp. She gets that for free.

Would you look at the maps?

In chapter 2, it's more efficient to return Levin to the main castle and just have Sylvia (who just joined with the main group) dance Sigurd towards that other castle. It'll take basically the same amount of turns. Ethlin's just speeding up Fury's recruitment.

I've already explained how having Aideen sit around and do nothing in Chapter 3 is just stupid.


Diadre-Money? Explain how she gets the money for Warp for the one chapter she can actually use it.

Sigurd? Dew?


Claude-Again, money.

Arena, Dew, starting money, you name it.

Admittedly, the post-promotion group was a tad far-fetched, though it's not like I need to use them to prove my point.



Also, what Sirius said.

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9 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:56 pm

ThunderMan wrote:
Grandjackal wrote:
I do not see others shaving off turns just with a single action.
I see the Return Ring in the way of your hype.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

...I don't think a single piece of equipment has ever destroyed my entire argument before x.x

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10 Re: Move is Overrated on Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:02 pm

just bug thunderman on IM or something so he can stop your hype before it starts V_V

I just KNOW you were going to use this as an "Arden up" ploy [what is it with you and ugly green haired armors anyway]

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11 Re: Move is Overrated on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:47 pm

Mekkah

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Don't make hype threads if you don't understand the game's mechanics properly. If I see one more "oh *facepalm* i totally forgot about this extremely crucial detail" then I'm just going to start locking them.

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