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Dolph vs. Astoria comparison.

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1 Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:39 pm

No introduction or face value stat comparison, lost my progress writing this post so I must quickly catch up. Fighter!Dolph assumed. Most of it were notes for myself anyway.

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Chapter 12

The opportunity cost of using Dolph on this chapter is either turn count or warp. If you do break him free, it takes three or four turns for him to walk out into the main area with the Himmler fight, and for 15 damage per hit from both of them, Dolph gets one rounded. He does 24 damage in return, requiring aid in order to score EXP.

I will assume no level gained for this chapter.

Chapter 12x

Iron Axe for Lv. 4 Dolph has 8 Mt against armors. He has 7 Str for a 15 attack total, but because Armors have 12-13 Def he'll only be doing 2 or 3 damage per hit, and will eat a counter for 15 damage (2RKO). This is important because the Armor Knight is the first enemy on the map.

Anything with around 8 Def (almost all of this map) will negate Iron Axe's Mt, leaving 7 damage from Str. These same non-armor enemies all have around 10 or more AS too. Besides the Sniper which annihilates him (Snipers are AWP wielders that pwn n00bs), these enemies 2RKO him all the same for 15 damage per hit.

Mages are the only enemy with Def (3 Def) lower than his Str, he gets 11 damage per hit and doubling, but the only realistic Mage he can fight is the one on the very right side of the map, as the other two are past the end of the level and also risks putting him in Sniper range.

Assuming no level gained here either.

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Chapter 13

6 Move should be enough to be able to fight Ballistians on this chapter. 14 Atk (WTN) with Iron Axe minus 12 Def is only 4 damage in total. The Arrowspate and Hoistflame do 17 damage for 2RKO, which is very important because these are the accurate ones (Dolph sees ~82% true hit from Arrowspate, ~92% from Hoistflamme.)

Astoria joins on this chapter, and starts in a convenient position to attack Ballistians. Starting as an enemy means that he doesn't get attacked while advancing. With Silver Sword (Wp. Triangle isn't an issue on this chapter), it is a 14 Mt weapon at B rank. Ballista still have 11-12 Def though, so he's still doing around 20 damage per turn with it equipped (base 8 Str). Steel Axe for Astoria has 10 Mt + 8 Str for 18 Atk vs 12 Def for about 12 damage per turn which isn't good, only for training axes.

He's two rounded by most enemies just like Dolph. I don't know about the Thunderbolt one because BB didn't list the attack for it. The boss does make Astoria's durability lead amount not getting killed if at full HP. 33 Attack - 8 Def = 25 damage to his 26 HP, while 33 attack - 5 = 28 damage, which OHKO's Dolph.

I'm gonna assume Dolph finally gets Hand Axe + Steel Axe, and three level ups (one or two level ups net unrealistic non-gains in FE Planet averages).

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Chapter 14

Dolph Lv. 7 (Pirate for this chapter) - 24 HP, 8 Str, 6 Skill, 12 Speed, 3 Luck, 6 Def
Astoria Lv. 1 - 26 HP, 8 Str, 14 Skill, 14 Speed, 3 Luck, 8 Def, 3 Res

Dolph going Pirate to cross the river. Astoria can also cross the river, while costlier is still good for less diverting action away from the clogged chokepoint.

Dolph with Steel Axe has 19 Attack w/ WTA. With Hand Axe, 17 Attack w/ WTA. Against the armors at the beginning, he does 6-7 damage per hit with Steel Axe, totalling to 12-14 after doubling, which is a 3RKO unless it has 37 HP then it turns into 4RKO. Astoria is the same way with Steel Axes, obv. Dolph is left at just a couple of hit points if he is hit, meaning that even if he is Mended (10 Mag needed for a 20 HP heal), he might die from another hit.

Astoria can use the Armor Slayer. A weapon that results in 20 Mt at WTD, totalling to 28 Attack. Vs. 13 Def of Armors, he does 15 damage per hit, and doubles them, leaving them at just a few HP. Astoria also takes a lot of damage from a hit, so he also requires a high end healer or two healers to help him survive.

Astoria can double 10 AS (not 11 AS) Social Knights with Hand Axe or Swords. If he doubles, he can do around 16 damage or so, which is a 3RKO to their 36 HP. If he doesn't double, he only does 8 damage. If Astoria uses the Silver Sword, against Lances it is an 11 Mt weapon. 11 Mt - 10 Def = 9 damage per hit * 2 = 18 damage, or a 2RKO unless it is an 11 AS Social Knight. Dolph cannot double either variation at 12 AS and has the same 8 Str and Axe choices, so his damage output isn't higher than Astoria w/ Hand Axe or Steel Axe. Both are 2RKO'd.

Against Thieves, Astoria is already a better choice since he has move Movement and might do better against the Social Knights that come before the Thieves. Against the Thieves themselves, IIRC they usually don't attack unless under some condition, so both should be able to just toss Hand Axes at them for 3RKOs.

Astoria has Armor Slayer for Jiol's room. He can 3RKO Jiol.

The only reason to fight the Archers in the top room is if you're trying to get Thoron. If you are though, Astoria can double 10 AS variants.

I'll assume Dolph levels up again, and Astoria gets one of the Thieves.

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Chapter 15

Dolph 8: 27 HP, 9 Str, 6 Skill, 13 Speed, 5 Def
Astoria 1: 26 HP, 8 Str, 14 Skill, 14 Speed, 8 Def

Mages have Armor-like AS. If Dolph goes remains Pirate or doesn't proc enough HP points, then some Mages might actually OHKO him, so he is going back to Fighter in order to not get insta-blicked. This means that Astoria has a movement advantage by being able to step onto the River, allowing a unit that can attack the left Mage more easily, as well as generally being choke point friendly. Otherwise, terrain mobility isn't as big a deal as one might think, since IIRC from Mekkah's low turn run on NM it was actually faster to walk the grass path.

Both double and ORKO Mages. Both are two rounded, though Pure Water is still good for ensuring they heal back up to full HP more easily even if it doesn't change the KO rate (if they don't, then they might not get healed enough to survive another hit).

Vs. Dragons, Hand Axe will do about 6-7 Damage depending on the character. Steel Axe does 9-10 Damage

I'll assume that Dolph gets the Bishop kill. Astoria levels up to 3 (again, need to assume stat gains), and they both now have C in Axes.

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Chapter 16

Astoria Lv. 3 - 27 HP, 9 Str, 14 Skill, 14 Speed, 4 Luck, 8 Def, 3 Res
Dolph Lv. 10 - 29 HP, 10 Str, 7 Skill, 14 Speed, 3 Luck, 6 Def

Actually I'm going to stop here because now Dolph has caught up to Astoria's speed and now has whatever he has besides Swords that we'll no longer be using (access to Hammer now) and will exceed it now, and comparisons have become the same anyway.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Should Astoria be brought closer to Dolph's position?

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2 Re: Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:02 pm

Plausable. Especially when you consider his suck for a period of time and Astoria is at least doubling sometimes at base. So should Samson follow some semblance here or is he going to be barred? Especially because:

Astoria Lv. 3 - 27 HP, 9 Str, 14 Skill, 14 Speed, 4 Luck, 8 Def, 3 Res
Dolph Lv. 10 - 29 HP, 10 Str, 7 Skill, 14 Speed, 3 Luck, 6 Def
Samson Lv. 10 - 24 HP | 10 Str | 14 Skl | 16 Spd | 7 Luck | 9 Def | 3 Res

And Samson is doubling Cavs a lot better than Astoria is at Chapter 16 + Silver Axes to consider.

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3 Re: Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:30 pm

I think it goes without saying that if this results in Dolph down, then Macellan is going to go tumbling down with him.

Just stating the obvious, but still.

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4 Re: Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:34 pm

Dolph & Mac down breaks too many arguments. Astoria would be rising.

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5 Re: Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:12 pm

Well you do have to kick Dolph down a bit. Astram over Palla is ridiculous.

Come to think of it, wtf is Palla doing in Low in the first place?

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6 Re: Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:47 pm

Certainly plausible, but I don't think Samson has much of a case.

I will sume it up this way. He can double unpromoted crap in his joining chapter, and can avoid the doubles in chapter 19 from it's heroes. Fastest unpromoted crap is 12 AS, 16 As should not be a problem by now. Basically he joins what most schmups should be able to do. This ends in chapter 20. Why?

Paladins with braves tend to have 27 ATK. Even if I were to assume Samson at 14, this means he has 26-27 HP and 9-10 Def. Even with the WTA, he would be ORKOd by a healthy margin, despite not being doubled. This doesn't even end with dracos, who has 25 ATK. he would need to luck out in both HP AND Defense (as in have both 10 Defense, 27 HP AND be sure to have an axe out, an error statistically of 60% without assuming rates of over the course of 4 levels) to survive by 1 HP.

So 4 chapters of meh, followed by an immediate need to be benched/slaughtered because he just can't survive as it's a near statistical impossibility (as a reference, even a dracoshield wouldn't save him from the paladins, unless again he proc'd 10 defense AND 27 HP), and joins late. Sounds like lower depths of low to me.

At least Astram joined when your guys might not quite be doubling (Cain needs to be level 17 to get 14 AS, you really think he's that high by chapter 13?).

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7 Re: Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:08 pm

At least Astram joined when your guys might not quite be doubling (Cain needs to be level 17 to get 14 AS, you really think he's that high by chapter 13?).
We get it. Doubling is the only stat you value.

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8 Re: Dolph vs. Astoria comparison. on Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:27 am

Yeah, I can't disagree with this. Dolph does take too much effort to get going, needs to be babied to get to Astoria's level, probably will need a Master Seal to get anywhere (when the game's almost over), etc.

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