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Julia up, a lot?

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1 Julia up, a lot? on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:41 pm

I'm just throwing an idea out here, so I you disagree with it I won't really feel offense, but looking at the tier list for FE7 and Matthew's one moment of glory when stealing the silver card is weighted so high right?

Julia also saves you a rediculous amount of turns by 1RKOing Julius and not to mention B staff utility while you still have her. Since rank in this game is based solely on survivial and minimizing turn count to under 399, wouldn't it make sense that Julia's moment of glory is equal to the moment of glory of stealing the silver card?

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2 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:43 pm

Since rank in this game is based solely on survivial and minimizing turn count to under 399

We aren't in GameFAQS anymore, toto. Ranks are a thing of the past.

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3 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:19 pm

I never was in GAMEFAQ boards...

But my point in this topic was to discuss whether Julia killing Julius is the same as Matthew stealing the silver card. You DON'T have to do it, but it saves turns or lets you buy more stuff.

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4 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:39 pm

Brighton wrote:I never was in GAMEFAQ boards...

But my point in this topic was to discuss whether Julia killing Julius is the same as Matthew stealing the silver card. You DON'T have to do it, but it saves turns or lets you buy more stuff.

Saves us turns? Do explain.

First off, you have to trod off allllll the way up to Velthomer to fight an entire horde of hellions with a dude with fenrir, meaning if even one of them hits, that unit is fucked to the grave. You then must kill this boss, take his throne, get to Julia, recruit her, warp her back to the main castle to get all that done with, warp her to the nearest castle to Valhalla and THEN have her walk ALL the way to Julius with her pisspoor move rate, then FNALLY fight him.

...OR

We go at it the old fashioned way and just have a go at killing Julius with our usual hosers like Shanan, whoever's got Holsety, Ichival, Celice, Mysoltain, and save us the whole trouble? Riskier perhaps, but is it really any more riskier than going into that hornet nest that is Velthomer? Absolutely not. Getting the Narga spell is a waste of time.

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5 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm

Grandjackal wrote:
Getting the Narga spell is a waste of time.


This post makes me sad.


Anyway, B staves is great, but this list doesn't have just staff users very high. You can also tell by the fact that the best staff using Fee on the list is the lowest of the 3 Fees (strength and critical being apparently more important). I mean, sure, she has to wait for promotion, but she does get B staves instead of C at this point, and has lots more mag than Fee[Noish]. Also look at Corple and Rana. Nanna may be high, but she's also got better str than a lot of other units thanks to Hezul. And a horse. And only C staves. And A Swords.

On the other hand, I love Resire and don't remember her having hit issues, but maybe she does. And 12 wt is annoying, but she does double all lance and axe and fire and dark users that she beats in unreduced speed. And thunder users that she beats by 6 or more.

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6 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:06 am

Narga_Rocks wrote:
Grandjackal wrote:
Getting the Narga spell is a waste of time.


This post makes me sad.

I'm not disagreeing with the topic, just saying that that particular point might have been ill thought out. If I don't need it to complete the game, and it only causes to take longer, then it's a waste of time.

Or was that just a joke concerning your screen name? Which case, lol.

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7 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:25 am

Uh, getting Narga isn't a waste of time. Celice can solo Velthomer (Prayer+Life laughs at Hell) while the rest of your team handles the Dark Warlords.

Julius has Wrath, Nihil, and Loptousu. 25 Def and 15 AS along with means the only units doing good damage to him a hit are Faval and Altenna, who do 11 damage with the Power Ring, and Altenna gets doubled even with a Speed Ring. Ares does 4 with the Mistolteen and Leaf with the Silver Axe and Power Ring does 2 (but gets doubled so it's a wash).

Plus, neither of these units can survive a hit from Wrath Julius anyway, and he has about... 154 Hit? That's like 84 Hit on Altenna, and about 35-40 on Faval.

So a 35-40% chance to get instablicked. Fun. And Faval doesn't even cap Str on average with most potential fathers. Oh yeah, and Julius has Charge, which is fun because it gives him a chance to kill you even if you don't get Wrath'd.

Oh yeah, and did I mention he heals 16HP a turn, and has like 93 Avoid, which means Faval only has like 70 Hit, giving a 50% chance to miss at least once. And that's Holyn!Faval, who has higher skill thanks to Odo. Lex!Faval doesn't cap and Midir!Faval needs to be like max level.

Even with potshots from Celice and a swordkid making Hero Sword attacks for an extra 8 damage, with Knight Ring + Dancer to double that damage, you're taking a ton of time and require a very specific setup, while each round of combat raises the chance of Charge going off and getting a unit killed.

The alternative is to Berserk the guy with Hel (which requires either Sharlow in play or praying for Berserk Sword to not kill the guy first) and then hope he hits Julius (he has <50 hit). I'm not sure if Julius counters, but if he does that doesn't help Mr. Bishop.

Yeah, she may not be necessary, but calling it "inefficient" compared to the alternatives of playing Russian Roulette or laughable.

Also, Staff utility matters less because there's no really good utility staves (Rescue requires you to have a dumbshit Lester, Warp/Return are nice in Ch. 9/Epilogue, Status range from situational to useless, rest is healing), and yet a third of your team can use staves to some degree. Considering it's possible to kill even the 12 Dark Warlords in a single turn and you already have dedicated staff users (Corplol, Rana, to a lesser extent Nanna) plus hilarity like Reserve, having staffs as a "bonus" isn't as nice as it is in other FEs. I, personally, almost never make use of Sety/Fee/Leaf's ability to use Staves other than for shits and giggles, and Corplol because there's suddenly tons of magic users that hit like trucks to your team with no Res, but now there's no excuse not to have Reserve because it was dropped by that dude with Hanny if you didn't pass it down.



Last edited by Paperblade on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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8 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:31 am

Grandjackal wrote:
We go at it the old fashioned way and just have a go at killing Julius with our usual hosers like Shanan, whoever's got Holsety, Ichival, Celice, Mysoltain, and save us the whole trouble? Riskier perhaps, but is it really any more riskier than going into that hornet nest that is Velthomer? Absolutely not. Getting the Narga spell is a waste of time.

I really don't see how Julius can be easily killed with Shannan / Aless / Holsety User / Celice. Of all the four, only Celice can reasonably stand up to him and even then it takes much more turns to kill Julius (Celice does single-digit damage, Shannan / Aless / Holsety User will get nuked by Wrath). Getting Narga and walking back is faster than using Celice because Narga is a 2RKO on Julius at most.

Julia's movement hinders her a lot, and while she is great with Rezire I can't see her getting to the action in a reasonable amount of time. She can use Libro and Silence staves but none of those are really gamebreaking since you have to pour a lot of money into her. Julia can't clear the later stages of the Arena, so she will have problems using high-level staffs.

Julia should have credit for killing Julius but I can't see her rising up very much if at all since her performance outside of that is subpar at best.

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9 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:09 am

Grandjackal wrote:
Narga_Rocks wrote:
Grandjackal wrote:
Getting the Narga spell is a waste of time.


This post makes me sad.

I'm not disagreeing with the topic, just saying that that particular point might have been ill thought out. If I don't need it to complete the game, and it only causes to take longer, then it's a waste of time.

Or was that just a joke concerning your screen name? Which case, lol.


I'd think it would be obvious. I cut out all of your post except for that one line. I suppose I should have only bolded "Narga", though, to make it more clear.

And I demand some lol! , rather than just lol.





For anyone interested, awareness does not block Charge. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, sadly. Well, given how Yurius just attacked Celice twice, anyway.




Oh, and Celice can do a whole 5 damage a shot with a power ring. So that's 28 per turn with help from Sylvia for Celice and Lakche. Well, more like 20 with Celice and then 4 with Lakche because there is no rescuing. So 24.

Anyway, I think Charge is the biggest reason to get Narga. Lakche + Celice could take the guy down eventually, and Faval could help out before Julius gets down to wrath range, but Charge makes it so even Celice could get killed (well, not really).

So, 154 hit?

Do we assume Laylea?

Too bad Sety does 1 damage.
And Shanan has no awareness.

Shanan has 26 or 27 speed. 13 or 14 luck.

Balmunk weighs 3. 24 + 20 speed.

88 + 14luck = 102.

3 charismas plus Celice's stars. Give him a lover.

Can't he reach 162 avo? Who needs awareness? Even drop his spd and luck by 2 each and he has 156 avo.


Only 23/24 str, though. He does like 4 damage with a power ring. 8 damage a round. Also no rescuing so there's only so much you can do with a dancer. But then no power ring on Faval.

32 damage. Celice first, canto, Lakche, dance, Celice, Shanon. (Oh, right, Lakche could die. Well, we don't care about death that doesn't cause game over, right? So for a while it is 32, then it might drop to 28. Also, Lakche is getting dropped because of the damage Celice can cause compared to Shinon can cause on enemy phase. Shanon goes into Lakche's place on that list.)

Yurius has 55 mt. Give Celice a barrier ring + Tyrfing and he has 70+ hp and ~40 res. He's 5HKOd. No way Yurius is charging that much. And charge is disabled at <25 hp anyway. And he has less spd than Celice. So assuming Celice has 21 speed and no ring, that's 24 speed. So it's Yurius' hp/2 - 9 of going off. Starts at 31%. Chance of 5 times? ~0.29%. Also, his hp are coming down anyway.

Let's see hit rates for/on Celice.

22+10 skill. 80 hit on Tyrfing. That's 144 hit. 20 for stars. 164 hit. 2 charisma users (w/out Laylea). 1 lover (whomever). 194 hit.
Yurius has 93 avo. (15 x 2 + 13 luck + 30 for castle + 20 for stars)

So Celice will never miss.

74% chance of at least 20 speed. 23 speed with Tyrfing. 72% of at least 22 luck.
66 avo. 86 with stars. 116 with two Charisma and one lover. Yurius has 154 hit. No rings on Celice, 38 hit against.

That .29% drops a lot. Like, might as well not even be there chance of death.

As near as I can tell, Celice + Shanon can kill Yurius without any reasonable chance of failure. You can even can Shanon and just go with Celice.

Yurius will always attack Celice if Celice is in position for Melee. And Celice will be able to counter. Yurius is just that stupid.

So Celice is pulling 30 damage a round, Yurius actually heals 15 (in my game, anyway).

Yurius has 80 hp.
80
60 -> 75 -> 65
45 -> 60 -> 50
30 -> 45 -> 35
15 -> 30 -> 20
0

Celice 5RKOs on his own. Celice will never be wrath'd, Celice will never miss. Yurius will never attack Celice's charisma bots. Yurius will never attack Celice's lover. (Well, keep them out of 2 range. But to be in 3 of Celice they must be anyway, so whatever).


Oh, and if Yurius is dumb enough to Charge two or more times before he can't anymore, it just speeds things up.

Also, since Celice just needs to get Yurius down to 20 hp to prevent the charging, Yurius must charge 4 or 5 times on what is basically the first attack set and he must hit 5 times. So either 5 out of 5 or 5 out of 6. After that point, Celice has knocked him down to 20 hp or less and Yurius will no longer charge.

So, at 80 hp he has a 31% chance. Let's say 32% in case Celice has 20 speed instead of 21.
Then at 70 hp he has a 26% chance.
At 60 hp he has a 21% chance.
At 50 hp he has a 16% chance.
At 40 hp he has a 11% chance.
At 30 hp he has a 6% chance.

How does charge even work? Does it look to activate at the beginning, or when Yurius attacks the first time when he has 75 hp? Or at the end of the "round" when he has 70 hp?

If it is at 70 hp, then that is
.26 x .21 x .16 x .11 of 5 attacks. That is .096096% chance of trying 5 times. .00576576% of 6 times.

The chances of all that happening when Yurius is pulling 38% on Celice?
5 hits out of 5:
.79235168% chance of all of those hitting.
Combine that with something that was already less than 1 in 1000. You get something that is probably around 1 in 100000 of Celice actually dying on you. I'm not sure quite what to do to figure out the true chance of death, and I don't even know when charge% is checked, but it seems to me that Celice is not dying.

So Celice 5RKOs. Probably 4RKOs if Yurius is nice to us.


Oh, there is a small snag on the first turn. Dancer can't dance without having been in range of meteo on the previous turn before Celice gets in range. And a 5 move lover can't get into range of Celice on the first turn. A 6+ move lover, of course, can. Nanna and Delmud have no such problems. Also, Celice can just use canto to get to where a dancer can reach. No problems for the dancer.


Only concern, then, is what about KOing all those other enemies while Yurius is raining down Meteo (still charging at (40 - 5 - pc speed)%). Well, that and "what if Celice loves Rana?". But that just ups the hit rate by 10, it's still going to be death chances in the 1 in 10000 range for that one attack, then back to 1 in 100000.


So, let's ignore both of that for now.

Celice attacks, moves out of the way. gets danced. Attacks again. Gets attacked on enemy phase. (Oh, and two libro staff users + one reserve staff user to keep him healed. Also, send in a recover staff user on the following turn. And Nanna with relive. Celice is always at full health for each attack.

Next turn, Celice attacks, moves. Shanon attacks. Both are danced. Shanon steps out of the way. Celice attacks. Gets attacked on enemy phase. Repeat until Yurius is dead. Probably 4 rounds.

Total chance of death for Celice? Almost certainly less than 1 in 5000.

If you have Leen, well, I guess Shanon may eventually die. Facing 8% hit rates (25 speed and 12 luck) often enough will almost certainly get him eventually. Before Wrath is active, though, it still needs to hit twice in however many times charge activates. So he'll probably help at least until wrath is active.

Also, Faval helps until he dies. 8 damage a pop.

24 skill for the Lex version. 48 + 70 = 118. 2 charismas + lover + stars = 168. Only 75% hit, but who cares? He's just there to help out. Shanon and Celice are doing the real work. Well, Celice's 30 damage a round is >> Shanon's 8 and >> or > Faval's 0, 8, or 16.



Yeah, Tyrfing is amazing.

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10 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:56 am

Base Julia with Narga:

24 HP / 0 Str / 11 MGC / 28 SKL / 31 SPD / 5 LUK / 23 DEF / 34 RES

67 Evade

Julius with Loputousu -> 21 damage, 67 hit without Charisma / Leadership / Lover Bonus

Celice's stars basically cut it down to 47, which means that Julia can beat Julius at base quite easily with healing. 24 damage a round - 15 healed on enemy phase turns out to be 9 damage every round without dancing. And that's not counting the possible level ups that Julia would get, which means she won't need to be trained to kill Julius easier than Celice would (no need for that much healing, a dancer obviously speeds this up a lot).

I think that base Julia can reasonably go up against the Dark Warlords with Celice supporting her, with the exception of Zwolf (high accuracy, Hero Sword). But a hit from one of the physical guys puts her in prayer range so she can run in there and bomb with Narga if either Eins, Drei, Funf or Neun attack her and connect.

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11 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:13 pm

Aquilae wrote:Base Julia with Narga:

24 HP / 0 Str / 11 MGC / 28 SKL / 31 SPD / 5 LUK / 23 DEF / 34 RES

67 Evade

Julius with Loputousu -> 21 damage, 67 hit without Charisma / Leadership / Lover Bonus

Celice's stars basically cut it down to 47, which means that Julia can beat Julius at base quite easily with healing. 24 damage a round - 15 healed on enemy phase turns out to be 9 damage every round without dancing. And that's not counting the possible level ups that Julia would get, which means she won't need to be trained to kill Julius easier than Celice would (no need for that much healing, a dancer obviously speeds this up a lot).

I think that base Julia can reasonably go up against the Dark Warlords with Celice supporting her, with the exception of Zwolf (high accuracy, Hero Sword). But a hit from one of the physical guys puts her in prayer range so she can run in there and bomb with Narga if either Eins, Drei, Funf or Neun attack her and connect.

I don't deny that Julia can crush Julius. She should be able to 2RKO him, ORKO if the idiot Charges. Also, with a trained Julia (and why not?) she can stand on a tree and take down half the dark warriors in one turn (probably without even getting hit). The other half she can take down the following turn (while still on the tree if they moved the previous turn) by going in, and Celice can stand on the tree while she is 3 steps closer to preserve the +20 avo.


That doesn't really change the fact that Celice can generally 4RKO Yurius on his own (with a truly miniscule chance of death). Getting Narga has to either make beating the Dark Warlords much safer/faster or only cost like 3 turns. I'm suggesting that Narga may not be a turn saver, and it may not even be a safer way to win. (Though prayer makes going down to 1 hp while getting the castle a joke, I suppose. Especially if you combine it with healing the following turn through Libro so he can go down again. Or the life ring like PB suggested. It's just, the !Narga way should be safe enough anyway.)

Sety[Levin] + Shanon with some charisma/lover/celice bonuses could probably clear the dark warriors out just fine. Don't know about Arthur[Levin], since his speed cap means 16 less avo. But Meteo!Yurius has 10 less hit, so only 144. Don't know about all the dark warriors, but some charisma units + Celice standing on the trees with Sety and Shanon closer in should do fine.

(Oh yeah, apparently Celice gets +1 luck and +3 mdf from two convos with Julia. Making Julius even more likely to 5RKO Celice if Celice has a barrier ring. 81% chance of having >= 14+3 res. 42 with barrier ring and Tyrfing. Takes 13 damage from Yurius. 94% chance of having at least 68 hp. Basically, he's quite likely to actually be 6RKOd instead of 5RKOd. Which means that Yurius has to activate Charge 6 times the first time Celice attacks him, and Yurius has to hit every single one of those times. If not, Yurius cannot possibly KO Celice. So the chance of Celice actually dying just became even less. Oh, and Meteo gives Yurius 40 mt, so he does 1 damage to Celice with that. Apparently the limit on charge is 20 times, and Yurius has -5 AS with Meteo so he's looking at 40 - 5 - Celice's speed. So ~12% charge with Meteo if Celice has just 20 + 10 - 7 speed. Even if charge didn't have a limit, the chance of Yurius doing anything of relevance with Meteo on Celice is beyond miniscule.)


(oh, not that it matters much (since she won't be base), but base Julia only has 19 speed thanks to Narga's 12 wt. Julia has a mere 43 avo. Julius has 154 hit, 144 with Meteo. 100% hit rate. The bonuses knock it down to 51%. Also, you gave him 134 hit, which doesn't seem to include his 3 starts (+20). Also, base Julia has just 136 hit, so only 43% hit on the guy. 93% with 2 charismas + celice + lover, but wouldn't it be time consuming to get Julia a lover? 100 turns adjacent. So 83% hit. Level 21 brings 100% hit without a lover.)

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12 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:37 pm

Rather than actually make an argument, I'll pose some semi-relavant questions in an attempt to understand the situation in order to make some responsive arguments later.

Does the Celice soloing Julius imply that rerecruiting Julia is now considered inefficient?

You say that it would be ok to sacrifice Faval in order to save turns. Does efficiency imply not recruiting/killing off characters or are we supposed to make sure everyone survives?

Why did you do a base leveled Julia comparison earlier on?

Why are characters that require gold to gain levels being punished so much in this tier list, especially when arena abuse is actually recommended and doesn't waste turns. Does the efficient resource allocation rule still apply in tier list discussions ie giving Oswin a speedwing opposed to guy (I still refuse to call them debates)? If it does I can see a lot of characters moving up.

If someone could fill me in to the rules of efficiency lists more I will be very appreciative Very Happy

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13 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:39 pm

Narga_Rocks wrote:
I'd think it would be obvious. I cut out all of your post except for that one line. I suppose I should have only bolded "Narga", though, to make it more clear.

And I demand some lol! , rather than just lol.

A lot of the time I think that with some posts, only to find out they were serious, or vice-versa. You could say I've grown cautious because of it.

*sees everyone else's immediate disagreement*

Well, seems I was countered quite thoroughly by everyone ever.

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14 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:20 pm

Brighton wrote:
Does the Celice soloing Julius imply that rerecruiting Julia is now considered inefficient?
No idea. I'm not sure how hard it actually is to defeat the Dark Warriors without her. Yurius himself is a cinch, though.

You say that it would be ok to sacrifice Faval in order to save turns. Does efficiency imply not recruiting/killing off characters or are we supposed to make sure everyone survives?
I should think you don't care anymore when it is the last boss. The idea is that Celice 5RKOs Yurius. But Yurius will probably charge at least twice over time. So it's a 4RKO. Risking Faval has the possibility of turning it into a 3RKO. Also, Shanon is pretty much invincible, so risking Faval will almost certainly result in a 3RKO if you use Shanon. Also, Shanon should guarantee a 4RKO even if there is no charge-ing by Yurius against Celice.


Why did you do a base leveled Julia comparison earlier on?
I'm assuming that Aquilae did that to show how good Julia is on the Dark Warriors. If she can do that at base, then clearly at a proper level she is even better.


Why are characters that require gold to gain levels being punished so much in this tier list, especially when arena abuse is actually recommended and doesn't waste turns. Does the efficient resource allocation rule still apply in tier list discussions ie giving Oswin a speedwing opposed to guy (I still refuse to call them debates)? If it does I can see a lot of characters moving up.
Do you mean Corpl? Or more than just that? I would think that there are so many villages and many of your characters get money so easily that lining Corpl's pockets should be justified. As for the rings, I'm not sure what they are doing with the stat boost rings. They are only 20000 and so moving them around is just a loss of 10000 per unit. No loss for any unit with Bargain.


If someone could fill me in to the rules of efficiency lists more I will be very appreciative Very Happy
Not quite sure what they are doing here.



Grandjackal wrote:
Well, seems I was countered quite thoroughly by everyone ever.

Didn't I show how Yurius is easily dealt with and thus it is an expense of turns to get Narga for Yuria? That was your point, and I defended it.

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15 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:24 pm

Narga_Rocks wrote:
Didn't I show how Yurius is easily dealt with and thus it is an expense of turns to get Narga for Yuria? That was your point, and I defended it.

Woops, missed that bit.

Pardon that bit of rudeness, you rock dude.

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16 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:02 am

I'm assuming that Aquilae did that to show how good Julia is on the Dark Warriors. If she can do that at base, then clearly at a proper level she is even better.

I've wiped out all the Dark Warriors in a single turn without Celice. It should take 2 turns, tops. Even rerecruiting Julia, she's not going to be fighting them since you only need like 1-2 people for Velthomer.

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17 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:33 am

Paperblade wrote:
I'm assuming that Aquilae did that to show how good Julia is on the Dark Warriors. If she can do that at base, then clearly at a proper level she is even better.

I've wiped out all the Dark Warriors in a single turn without Celice. It should take 2 turns, tops. Even rerecruiting Julia, she's not going to be fighting them since you only need like 1-2 people for Velthomer.

If that's the case, then as near as I can tell you are looking at about the same number of turns whether Celice takes out Yurius (with a little help from Shanon and Faval) or Julia does. Or possibly fewer without Julia. But I can't imagine her actually saving turns. If 1-2 units can clear out the Dark Warriors in 1 turn, then it's fine to not bother with Narga.


edit: It helps that Yurius is too stupid to simply Meteo random units rather than attacking Celice on enemy phase in such a way that it allows Celice to counter. Is it the same for all enemy units guarding castles? (Although it may only matter for any units guarding castles that happen to have 3-10 range weapons in addition to 1-2 range weapons.)

Although it is still silly that all of them will end up attacking in such a way as to allow counters even when the unit standing there has 1 range and the unit in the castle has 1-2 range.

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18 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:53 pm

I should think you don't care anymore when it is the last boss. The idea is that Celice 5RKOs Yurius. But Yurius will probably charge at least twice over time. So it's a 4RKO. Risking Faval has the possibility of turning it into a 3RKO. Also, Shanon is pretty much invincible, so risking Faval will almost certainly result in a 3RKO if you use Shanon. Also, Shanon should guarantee a 4RKO even if there is no charge-ing by Yurius against Celice.



I'm assuming that Aquilae did that to show how good Julia is on the Dark Warriors. If she can do that at base, then clearly at a proper level she is even better.
Hmm...i see now


Do you mean Corpl? Or more than just that? I would think that there are so many villages and many of your characters get money so easily that lining Corpl's pockets should be justified. As for the rings, I'm not sure what they are doing with the stat boost rings. They are only 20000 and so moving them around is just a loss of 10000 per unit. No loss for any unit with Bargain.

Well to some extent I was referring to Corpl as I might have time to discuss him later on now that its Winter Break in the States. Rana also was apparently bad when I brought her up before because she would stay poor or something and no one would give her any villages or a bargain ring or Patty gold. But if other people also think that the value of gold is less valuable due to less scarcity in this game, I don't think it is inefficient to favor characters economically (staff abuse) in order for them to get better faster and it probably would help the team as a whole if Rana doesn't go bankrup instantly after chapter 6. But the main reason I brought it up was the comparison of base level Julia and I assumed people didn't staff abuse her to level 30 due to the cost.


Not quite sure what they are doing here.

What? I just got confused due to the defintion changing all the time and between games as well and I've never seen a clear concise list of requirements stating what stategies are considered efficient. IE favoring a character economically isn't nearly as inefficient as in other Fire Emblem Games.


I'm content in so far as I think Julia isn't providing any unique utility (like Matthew does) due to your analysis earlier. I don't stand by my originally postulated theory anymore. Thank you for answering my questions too BTW.

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19 Re: Julia up, a lot? on Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:46 pm

Narga_Rocks wrote:
edit: It helps that Yurius is too stupid to simply Meteo random units rather than attacking Celice on enemy phase in such a way that it allows Celice to counter. Is it the same for all enemy units guarding castles? (Although it may only matter for any units guarding castles that happen to have 3-10 range weapons in addition to 1-2 range weapons.)

Weird question that. Some do, some don't. It's weird, as it can't be specified, it seems random.

Just comes to show how stupid the AI was. Seems all the brainpower went to Thracia.

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