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Barst>Wolf

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1 Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:42 am

Barst is one of your best earlygame contributors, Wolf doesn't exist earlygame. Even in C6 when Wolf finally exists, he's still going to have durability problems as long as he's getting doubled, and 6x Pirates WILL double him, and Barst>Hero Wolf, so if Wolf pulls out an advantage between 8 and 10 somehow, I don't think it'll cancel out Barst's win for more of the time.

Lemme just skip to the important part of why I think Barst>Wolf, though.

15/7 Hero Barst: 39 HP 17 str 21 AS 13 def

Chapter 14

1 Shooter [lvl 3]
5 Archer [lvl 7, 2 Long Bow 1 Silver Bow]
2 Priest [1 lvl 12 Fortify 1 lvl 7 Mend]
6 Armor [1 lvl 11 Silver Lance, 5 lvl 7, 2 Silver Lance 2 Jav 1 Ridersbane]
4 Cav [lvl 7]
2 Thief [1 lvl 7 1 lvl 9]
1 Sniper [lvl 3]


Archer 7 (Silver Bow): 32 (33) HP, 23 (24) atk, 104 (105) hit, 10 (11) AS, 7 (Cool def, 0 (1) res, 4 (5) crit

NOTE: Forged Longbows are identical to Silver Bow stats, just 2-3 range.

Cav 7 (Silver Lance): 35 (36) HP, 27 (28) atk, 103 (104) hit, 10 (11) AS, 9 (10) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit

Sniper 3 (Silver Bow): 41 (42) HP, 26 atk, 115 hit, 16 AS, 8 (9) def, 4 res, 12 crit

Armor 7 (Silver Lance): 36 (37) HP, 27 (28) atk, 103 (104) hit, 4 (5) AS, 12 (13) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
12 mt Ridersbane: 36 (37) HP, 26 (27) atk, 103 (104) hit, 4 (5) AS, 12 (13) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
Forged Javelin: 36 (37) HP, 25 (26) atk, 103 (104) hit, 4 (5) AS, 12 (13) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit

Armor 11 (Silver Lance): 40 (41) HP, 29 atk, 104 hit, 5 AS, 13 def, 1 res, 4 crit

Thief 7 (Silver Sword): 28 HP, 21 atk, 109 (110) hit, 17 (18) AS, 3 def, 4 (5) crit

Thief 9 (Silver Sword): 30 HP, 21 (22) atk, 110 (111) hit, 18 AS, 3 (4) def, 5 crit

Priest 12 (Fortify): 26 HP, 11 HP heal, 12 AS, 5 def, 11 res

Priest 7 (Mend): 24 HP, 19 HP heal, 10 AS, 4 def, 8 res

Boss: Jiol (Silver Lance): 47 (48) HP, 30 atk, 102 (103) hit, 9 AS, 16 def, 3 res, 3 (4) crit
Killer Bow: 47 (48) HP, 25 atk, 92 (93) hit, 9 AS, 16 def, 3 res, 23 (24) crit

The 29 atk Silver Lance Armor, the Sniper, and Jiol are the only things on the map 3RKOing him. Everything else is a 4RKO, all of this with me just ignoring Barst's likely support options which give him actually somewhat reliable avo. General Wolf can't get this kind of offense. Hero Wolf might come close, but would get shitstomped durability wise. Barst has a clear offensive win, and that matters more when you're not dying either way.

It kind of keeps going on like that for the rest of the game, too. Heck, considering lolGaiden enemies, it probably starts at 12x.

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2 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:53 am

Don't forget that Barst is one of your best candidates for a Dracoshield. Cavs now 5RKO him for example. Hero Wolf:

For direct comparisons, if we take 15/7 Barst against Hero Wolf...

Wolf doesn't have his HP until Lvl 12
Wolf doesn't have his Str until Lvl 14
Wolf doesn't have his Spd until Lvl 14
Wolf doesn't have his Def until Lvl 12

Taking into consideration Wolf's slower start/exp gains, I'd say that Wolf probably wouldn't even be able to reach Lvl 12-14 by Chapter 14.

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3 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:02 am

lol, i've been waiting on this topic

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4 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:12 am

Mekkah

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of all the active people on IRC right now (SDS Mekkah Int IOS bblade and even FEDS authority jumpluff) nobody disagreed

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5 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:49 am

...That picture is really creepy.

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6 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:48 pm

and even FEDS authority
Huh? I wasn't on IRC at the time this thread was made.

Not that I disagree, I am just very confused right now.

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7 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:55 pm

He's talking about jumpluff. Its a joke.

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8 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:02 pm

Oh, Mekkah said FEDS Authority, not FE3 authority.

Dang, I'm tired.

EDIT: Changed the tier list.

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9 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:10 pm

Now just one question. What about the greatest man alive himself?

a.k.a. Zagaro?

EDIT: Fix'd



Last edited by Colonel M on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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10 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:11 pm

EDIT: THanks.

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11 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:48 pm

Yes, I do wonder how long it will be before Barst is declared best unit. Yesterday Skittles Tier, today Wolf, and tomorrow he'll be coming for Zagaro. It's only a matter of time.

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12 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:56 pm

That was discussed. Hero Barst is beating Zag in str slightly, but Zag doesn't care about using Silver more often since he's completely invincible, so Barst's offense win isn't as relevant.

Trust me. I tried to argue that Blue Raspberry was a better flavor than Lime.

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13 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:35 pm

I wish it weren't true...but I CAN'T disagree. BBlader brought it up with me before, my reaction was like when Luke discovered Vadar was his father.

As much as I wish it weren't true...

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14 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:49 pm

Grandjackal wrote:I wish it weren't true...but I CAN'T disagree. BBlader brought it up with me before, my reaction was like when Luke discovered Vadar was his father.

As much as I wish it weren't true...

Is this in reference to Barst > Wolf, or Sedgar > Barst?

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15 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:51 pm

Narga_Rocks wrote:
Grandjackal wrote:I wish it weren't true...but I CAN'T disagree. BBlader brought it up with me before, my reaction was like when Luke discovered Vadar was his father.

As much as I wish it weren't true...

Is this in reference to Barst > Wolf, or Sedgar > Barst?

Wolf, of course.

Barst is gonna have a hard time proving himself better than Zagaro (Sedgar).

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16 Re: Barst>Wolf on Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:46 pm

You seem confident now, but you just wait. A while ago everyone would have immediately scoffed at the idea of Barst > Wolf, much less Barst in Skittles Tier, and look where he's at now.

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17 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:44 am

Mekkah

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Never mind that. Short times ago, people considered _Cord_ better than Barst.

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18 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:09 am

Mekkah wrote:Never mind that. Short times ago, people considered _Cord_ better than Barst.

Barst, the new Mia. (Rocket-like movement up a tier list, though she went further in a shorter timeframe).

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19 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:19 am

Tiki is the Mia in that sense. Barts is just a top tier dude that went into above Titania tier.

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20 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:26 am

FE3_Player wrote:Tiki is the Mia in that sense. Barts is just a top tier dude that went into above Titania tier.

Okay, so she climbed a lot, but I think to be a Mia you should probably at least get to near the top of high tier after a large movement. I guess I didn't specify that earlier, though. I think Fee might qualify, actually, given how high she climbed. I think BBlade stuck (parts of) her in lower mid or something because of his anti-peg mentality.

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21 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:28 am

If you want a character that shot up the tier list near the top, then Cord would most qualify, otherwise we don't really have a character like Mia.

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22 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:08 am

FE3_Player wrote:If you want a character that shot up the tier list near the top, then Cord would most qualify, otherwise we don't really have a character like Mia.

Well, as long as Cord went up about 10 spots in a week (whatever week it was), he's fine. Or about 20 spots in a few months (don't know how many). If he did that, he's a Mia. If he did it before she did, then she's a Cord.

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23 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:34 am

Mekkah

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Distinct lack of Wendell and Draug mentions itt.

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24 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:36 am

I forgot about Doga. Wendell has been overhyped for a long time.

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25 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:55 am

Narga_Rocks wrote:
FE3_Player wrote:Tiki is the Mia in that sense. Barts is just a top tier dude that went into above Titania tier.
I think BBlade stuck (parts of) her in lower mid or something because of his anti-peg mentality.

eh

I don't remember her being as low as lower mid

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26 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:14 pm

sPortsman wrote:
Narga_Rocks wrote:
FE3_Player wrote:Tiki is the Mia in that sense. Barts is just a top tier dude that went into above Titania tier.
I think BBlade stuck (parts of) her in lower mid or something because of his anti-peg mentality.

eh

I don't remember her being as low as lower mid

I thought most of her was mid and one father had her in lower mid. Maybe I'm remembering something else. I remember whatever father it was resulting in the top of lower mid, if that makes it sound better. Anyway, even mid to high would be a Mia-level climb.

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27 Re: Barst>Wolf on Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:22 pm

I could see Barst's as a Mia level climb. He did something that seemed impossible. He beat WOLF. That at least seemed akin to someone climbing over Seth, which is no doubt similar to a huge Mia level climb.

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28 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:37 pm

I do want to make one statement though:

12 Wolf - 40.0 HP | 15.0 Str | 18.5 Skl | 19.3 Spd | 9.5 Luck | 12.9 Def | 1.0 Res

Silver Axe: 29 Atk
Hand Axe: 23 Atk

So let's take a gander if his 2 Atk loss is noticable since the durability is "not a shitstomp":

Archer 7 (Silver Bow): 32 (33) HP, 23 (24) atk, 104 (105) hit, 10 (11) AS, 7 ( def, 0 (1) res, 4 (5) crit

NOTE: Forged Longbows are identical to Silver Bow stats, just 2-3 range.
Silver Axe definitely ORKOes, dealing 22 damage in one hit. Hand Axe deals 16, so it's just roughly missing.
Cav 7 (Silver Lance): 35 (36) HP, 27 (28) atk, 103 (104) hit, 10 (11) AS, 9 (10) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
38 damage per round with the Silver Axe, 26 with the Hand Axe. If you're asking if Barst ORKOes with Hand Axe, well, the answer is no.
Sniper 3 (Silver Bow): 41 (42) HP, 26 atk, 115 hit, 16 AS, 8 (9) def, 4 res, 12 crit
The only enemy he misses doubling here. Unfortuantely a 3RKO.
Armor 7 (Silver Lance): 36 (37) HP, 27 (28) atk, 103 (104) hit, 4 (5) AS, 12 (13) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
12 mt Ridersbane: 36 (37) HP, 26 (27) atk, 103 (104) hit, 4 (5) AS, 12 (13) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
Forged Javelin: 36 (37) HP, 25 (26) atk, 103 (104) hit, 4 (5) AS, 12 (13) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
Hammer them to death: plain and simple.
Armor 11 (Silver Lance): 40 (41) HP, 29 atk, 104 hit, 5 AS, 13 def, 1 res, 4 crit
Ditto.
Thief 7 (Silver Sword): 28 HP, 21 atk, 109 (110) hit, 17 (18) AS, 3 def, 4 (5) crit
Both fail to ORKO due to WTD anyway.
[quoe]Thief 9 (Silver Sword): 30 HP, 21 (22) atk, 110 (111) hit, 18 AS, 3 (4) def, 5 crit[/quote]
Same.
Priest 12 (Fortify): 26 HP, 11 HP heal, 12 AS, 5 def, 11 res
Only difference is OHKOing, but both still accomplishing this with no troubles.
Priest 7 (Mend): 24 HP, 19 HP heal, 10 AS, 4 def, 8 res
Both OHKO.
Boss: Jiol (Silver Lance): 47 (48) HP, 30 atk, 102 (103) hit, 9 AS, 16 def, 3 res, 3 (4) crit
Killer Bow: 47 (48) HP, 25 atk, 92 (93) hit, 9 AS, 16 def, 3 res, 23 (24) crit
Just to quickly check on this, yes he ORKOes with Hammer.

So the only advantage Barst really has here is OHKOing a Priest and taking on a Sniper better offensively, and that likely lasts for a chapter. Defensively, Wolf has the same Def but +3 HP, and then Wolf pulls a rather closer lead in durability. As you can see via growths:

Barst - 60 HP | 20 Def
Wolf - 180 HP | 65 Def

Wolf definitely wins further into the game durably.

By the way, Wolf can swap to General in 7 and 8. In 6X, if he can at least hit a level up (I just used the Horseman one since it was easier):

25.6 HP | 7.0 Str | 10.9 Skl | 12.9 Spd | 5.5 Luck | 7.7 Def

So he wields a Steel Sword for 12 AS. Just a quick glance:

Pirate 3 (Iron Axe): 33 (34) HP, 20 (22) atk, 100 (101) hit, 8(9) AS, 5 def, 0 (1) res, 2 (3) crit
Steel Axe: 33 (34) HP, 23 (25) atk, 90 (91) hit, 8(9) AS, 5 def, 0 (1) res, 2 (3) crit
Hand Axe: 33 (34) HP, 21 (23) atk, 80 (81) hit, 8(9) AS, 5 def, 0 (1) res, 2 (3) crit

He can double these guys for 20 damage. If he resorts to Iron Axe to double the 9 AS, he does 2 less. Sitting on the fort, he has 26 HP | 9 Def. With this, the Pirates still 2RKO, but in return he can dodge some of the axes. The Mercenaries 3RKO him for 10 damage at worst on the fort. This leaves that Wolf can only die with a Mercenary + Steel Axe Pirate combo. Granted Barst can swap to Mercenary to yield a slightly similair effect, but just to say a Level 9 Fighter Barst 2RKOes with a slightly lower damage output vs Wolf (17 vs 18 at worst).

And Wolf being able to swap around between General and Hero when either is needed is nice. 7 and 8 definitely like General's usefulness: Bows and being able to help recruit Bantu. In 8 he knocks 3 Atk off of the Sword Cavs, so he needs 19 Def for no damage, but he likely can get 17 and take ~4 damage at worst.

So I'm a little more unsure about Barst > Wolf.

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29 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:47 pm

Not a chance. Barst has 4 chapters where Wolf doesn't exist, and he's doing better up to 14 as already posted. And Wolf being marginally better defensively later on when we're warpskipping everything is supposed to make up for that? Not a chance.

I'll break out the numbers if required, but I don't think that will be necessary.

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30 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:04 pm

Barst reclassed at 9 is very similar to what you posted, except Barst has these stats.

24.8 HP, 11.4 Str, 15.4 Skill, 13.8 Speed, 7.4 Luck, 8.9 Def

Steel is only 3 might less. Unless Wolf somehow got to C rank, Barst is actually doing 2 more damage.

Also, considering the WTA reducing their might by 1, I could say that Barst has a durability lead over Wolf. Iron axers and hand axers 3RKO him, and if Barst likely procs those HP and Def levels (30% chance of error not counting the levels needed to get here), Barst is even 3RKOd by the Steelers if placed on a mountain, or some other defense boosting terrain (23-1-1-9=12, 12x2=24<25).

As for avoid, you also seem to have forgotten Barst's supports. Ogma could easily be just as good if not better than Wolf here (most likely more Str, higher sword rank for stronger weapons like Silver), and of course we're using Cord. 2 supports that easily kick into the Cs, that's 5+5 avoid. Looking over his numbers, he could easily proc a speed to make up for the 1 luck lead Wolf hs with his even 8. He'd drop steelers to 38, hand axers to 28 naturally. With Ogma and Cord around, that's 28 and 18 respectively, iron being 48 and 38 for both situations. You could mention Hardin, but Barst could also bring Bord along (if we decide to do so) for yet another 5 avoid. Suddenly, his avoid is pretty relevent.

Wolf is getting trounced just naturally. Barst is doing with iron what Wolf needs steel to do, a weapon that is harder to come buy (you can just get iron from the convoy shop or generics), more expensive in both to buy and to forge.

That...could not have gone worse for you.



Last edited by Grandjackal on Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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31 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:06 pm

Not only that, you're ignoring the whole reason I argued this in the first place.

What good is Wolf's durability lead doing him if Barst isn't dying in the first place?

So let's take a gander if his 2 Atk loss is noticable since the durability is "not a shitstomp":

Um. Wolf doesn't magically get B Axes. He has to build that shit up. From fucking E Rank.

15/7 Barst has 40 HP/18 str/19.5 AS/13 def [Essentially 14, axe rank]. Perhaps they are close defensively, but Barst's str and axe rank allow for notable offensive wins and he's still winning everywhere else across the board, so he's better. Plus Wolf's supports aren't as epic. All of this nonwithstanding Barst has been better longer than Wolf has been.

There isn't a tier gap between them or anything but Barst is the clear winner.

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32 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:25 pm

In fact, Ogma's doing better than Wolf at Pyarthi on an astounding level.

9 Ogma

26.5 HP, 8 Str, 13 Skill, 13.5 Speed, 5 Luck, 7 Def, B rank Swords.

Those guys had 20-21 ATK. Due to WTA, Ogma is also 3RKOd by iron axers, and a coin flip or defensive terrain decides if we include hand axers to that too. While Ogma might not have the support situation down (Shiida's fine, but Navarre is questionable), he does have offense down. In fact, he might just bet everybody here about it.

See, Ogma's B rank gives him 2 more might. Silver swords are 12 might, he's 1 of the 3 who might have them here (Navarre has 1 less Str of which is necessary, Cain would have to sacrifice lance building). This means he has 22 might. They have 5 Def, so he's doing 17x2 damage. Seems they proc 34 HP if they're lucky...A clean solid ORKO.

So yeah, Wolf isn't even outperforming an upper mid guy just yet.

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33 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:53 pm

I know Int is pretty much the reason why I slightly disagree with this logic (with his playthrough and Zagaro), but here:

Chapter 7:

5 Wolf - 33.4 HP | 10.0 Str | 4.8 Skl | 5.7 Spd | 6.0 Luck | 16.3 Def | 1.0 Res

Steel Lance - 19 Atk
Iron Bow (effective) - 25 Atk

10 Barst - 29.6 HP | 12.8 Str | 8.8 Skl | 11.1 Spd | 7.8 Luck | 7.05 Def | 0 Res

Steel Axe - 23 Atk
Hand Axe - 21 Atk

Chapter 7

2 Archer lvl 3 [1 Steel Bow, 1 Long Bow]
2 Merc [1 lvl 3 1 lvl 5]
1 Thief lvl 3
2 Armor lvl 3
1 Priest lvl 1
1 Wyvern lvl 2
2 Peg [1 lvl 1 1 lvl 3]

Archer 3 (Steel Bow): 29 (30) HP, 18 atk, 93 hit, 9 AS, 6 def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
Long Bow: 29 (30) HP, 18 atk, 83 hit, 9 AS, 6 def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit
Wolf takes 4 damage from these guys. Barst takes 11. Steel Lance 3RKOes, Steel Axe 2RKOes.
Wyvern 2 (Steel Lance):38 HP, 23 atk, 93 hit, 14 (15) AS, 10 def, 3 res, 4 crit
Barst can actually get doubled if he procs Spd. Iron Bow 3RKOes, and Hand Axe 4RKOes. Steel Axe can 3RKO. Also consider that we can forge a little Mt onto the Bow to make these easier. In return, if Barst isn't doubled he takes 14 damage while Wolf takes 14 as well.
Merc 3 (Steel Sword): 29 HP, 20 atk, 101 hit, 13 AS, 6 def, 5 crit

Merc 5 (Steel Sword): 31 (32) HP, 21 atk, 101 (102) hit, 14 AS, 6 def, 0 (1) res, 5 (6) crit
Wolf takes 4-6 damage per round while Barst takes 14-15 damage and having a slight hit disadvantage here. Steel Lance 3RKOes.
Peg 1 (Steel Lance): 29 (30) HP, 19 atk, 91 (92) hit, 13 AS, 5 def, 6 res, 3 crit

Peg 3 (Steel Lance): 31 (32) HP, 19 atk, 92 hit, 14 AS, 6 def, 6 res, 3 crit
Barst takes 10 damage while Wolf takes 6.
Thief 3(Steel Sword): 26 (27) HP, 16 (17) atk, 98 hit, 13 AS, 1 (2) def, 4 crit [His AS will lower if he gets low str because steel weighs him down]
Wolf takes no damage, Barst takes 11 at worst. Both 2RKO, but Wolf is more accurate.
Boss: Hermine (Silver Lance) 44 HP, 29 (30) atk, 101 hit, 8 AS, 15 def, 3 res, 3 crit
+ The armors I concede to Barst.

In C8, keep Wolf as a General. Another level for both.

Wolf - 35.2 HP | 11.0 Str | 5.7 Skl | 6.3 Spd | 6.5 Luck | 17.2 Def | 1.0 Res

To sum this up: Barst faces slight accuracy issues. Nothing too major, but it can sightly decrease his chances to 2RKO. As for Wolf, he takes 4 damage per round vs. the Cavs and Horseman do 0-2 damage. Archers do 2 damage... well you get the point, right? I can nearly warp this dude in the middle of the battlefiel with a Vulnerary and have someone Physic the dude and be alright. Taking 4 damage at worst, he takes 16 damage if he's surrounded by 4 Cavaliers, which isn't a 2RKO (in the sense that he takes the 4 Cavs twice somehow). Procing a level up nets him +1 Spd, which is enough to curb his doublng rut. Barst's advantage is the Armor Knights here as he can easily hammertime them. As for everything else, Barst is 2RKOed by the Sword Cavs and 3RKOed by the Archers and Armors IIRC.

So let's look at 15/1 Barst vs. 9 Wolf. General again:

Barst - 35.6 HP | 15.8 Str | 19.8 Skl | 17.6 Spd | 9.8 Luck | 11.8 Def | 3 Res
Wolf - 40.6 HP | 13.9 Str | 8.5 Skl | 8.5 Spd | 8.0 Luck | 19.4 Def | 1 Res

Now offensively he looks a lot better. To compare:

Silver Axe - 30 Atk
Steel Lance (C Rank) - 23 Atk

Ouch, 7 Atk difference is pretty big. D Bows are likely here, so let's assume that, which gives him 22 Atk (38 w/effective).

Chapter 11

4 cav lvl 6 [2 silver lance 2 Javelin]
2 peg lvl 6 [Javelin]
2 shooter 1 lvl 1 1 lvl 3 [Lvl 1 Stonehedge, lvl 3 Thunderbolt]
7 merc 1 lvl 5 rest lvl 6
1 thief lvl 6
1 horseman lvl 2
1 sniper lvl 1
*Sigh*.
Cav 6 (Silver Lance): 34 HP, 27 atk, 103 hit, 10 AS, 8 (9) def, 4 crit
Javelin: 34 HP, 25 atk, 103 hit, 10 AS, 8 (9) def, 4 crit
27 Atk 6RKOes Wolf, to give you an idea. With WTA, Barst takes 12 damage, or a 4RKO. Offensively Barst is pretty much killing him here.
Merc 5 (Silver Sword): 31 (32) HP, 24 (25) atk, 112 hit, 14 AS, 5 (6) def, 0 (1) res, 6 crit
Merc 6 (Silver Sword): 32 HP, 25 atk, 112 hit, 14 AS, 6 (7) def, 0 (1) res, 6 crit
Now Wolf takes 6 damage while Barst takes 13 damage per round, 14 if he has the Axe out. Steel Lance 2RKOes though.
Shooter 1 (Stonehedge): 33 HP, 24 atk, 52 hit, 6 AS, 12 def, 1 crit
Wolf can take the hit, but I won't deny Barst being able to dodge this fairly easy (with Trees he gets +10, so it's like less than a quarter chance to hit. Wolf can't double this thing, so offensively win is Barst.
Shooter 3 (Thunderbolt): 36 HP, 10 atk, 82 hit, 6 (7) AS, 13 def, 1 crit
Pass really since it's a repeat aside from both nearly lol at this thing.
Peg 6 (Forged Javelin): 34 HP, 22 atk, 102 hit, 15 AS, 6 def, 7 res, 3 crit
6 damage for Wolf, 7 for Barst. With Steel Bow he deals 32 damage per round while Barst deals 25 damage per round. +1 Mt on Steel Bow should KO these guys.
Sniper 1 (Forged Killer Bow): 40 HP, 26 atk, 124 hit, 16 AS, 8 def, 3 res, 32 crit
And here we hit a little rough spot. Now first off, Wolf takes 7 damage per round while Barst takes 14. Now before you state (oh but Wolf gets doubled!), we're getting there. If Wolf takes one critical, he takes 27 damage, so 34 in one round. If Barst takes a critical, he takes 36 damage per round. They're both tredging on a "danger!" sign, but Wolf can at lest survive a critical + single hit while Barst can't survive a critical round. Offensively Barst does 22 damage per round while Wolf does 15. So yeah, offensively Barst has the advantage. But, however, he switches to the Hand Axe (24 Atk), the difference here is they both 3RKO.
Horseman 2: 33 (34) HP, 22 atk, 106 (107) atk, 15 AS, 6 def, 3 res, 5 (6) crit
Wolf takes 6 damage, Barst takes 10. Barst 2RKOes with Silver while Wolf can 2RKO with Steel.
Boss: Shozen (Fire Stone): 38 HP, 32 atk, 102 (103) hit, 18 AS, 13 def, 5 res, 9 crit
Barst takes 20 damage in one round while Wolf takes 26, so Barst wins here offensively + defensively.

So even thought Barst's offense has improved, in this instance he still has to face instances where Wolf takes a pretty big difference in the #KO range in comparison to Barst.

Then you have 14. So anyway, this assumed:

5 and 6 were Horseman, but only because Horseman was locked.
6X was Hero.
7 and 8 were Generals.
9 was Hero.
10 and 11 are likely Generals.
12, 12X, and 13 are Heroes.

But the main point being that he can swap around in different classes with, well, I won't say "relative ease" but with some ease and contribute positively to the team in these situations. And to be fair, --/7 Hero Zagaro isn't that much better than 15/1 Barst:

--/7 Zag: 32.6 HP | 10.8 Str | 16.2 Skl | 15.9 Spd | 3.8 Luck | 12.1 Def | 2.0 Res

Actually he loses durability and his offense is still a bit meek. Remember how Barst has 30 Atk? Zag here has 25 at best, and this is assuming he climbed from E to B in that short of a time.

And then look at 15/7 Barst to --/10 Zag:

Barst - 39 HP 17 str 21 AS 13 def
Zag - 38.0 HP | 13.2 Str | 19.4 Skl | 18.3 Spd | 4.7 Luck | 14.7 Def | 2.0 Res

Zag's only wins are 2 Def vs. 1 HP, then he loses offense to Pegasi if they dare come + the Sniper in the corridoor. Let's see, if he's getting Silver Axes by now he has 27 Atk. So looking at a Cavalier real fast:

Cav 7 (Silver Lance): 35 (36) HP, 27 (28) atk, 103 (104) hit, 10 (11) AS, 9 (10) def, 0 (1) res, 4 crit

He can fail to ORKO these unless he procs Str or gets A Axes, and if we're not seeing A Axes for Wolf, it's probably just as hard for Zag too.

So if Barst > Wolf can happen... I think that Barst > Zag can happen too following "nearly" the same logic applied against Wolf here.



Last edited by Colonel M on Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

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34 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:54 pm

3 Wolf - 33.4 HP | 10.0 Str | 4.8 Skl | 5.7 Spd | 6.0 Luck | 16.3 Def | 1.0 Res


...3 is Wolf's base level.

btw, 9 Wolf when Barst is 15/1? You're levelling Wolf WAY too fast.

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35 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:01 pm

sPortsman wrote:
3 Wolf - 33.4 HP | 10.0 Str | 4.8 Skl | 5.7 Spd | 6.0 Luck | 16.3 Def | 1.0 Res


...3 is Wolf's base level.

btw, 9 Wolf when Barst is 15/1? You're levelling Wolf WAY too fast.
6 chapters, but possibly. He might be one level behind, but at worst it might make him take two damage more in certain instances. But pointing toward Wolf isn't 100% my banked argument either. If Wolf > Barst isn't possible, Zag > Barst is hard to see as well.

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36 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:01 pm

Assuming Barst is L7 in Ch 6 (1 level per chap), then you gave Wolf 6 levels in the same time that Barst gained 8, when Wolf's Exp gains are initially liek half of Barst's.

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37 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:05 pm

CAT5 wrote:Assuming Barst is L7 in Ch 6 (1 level per chap), then you gave Wolf 6 levels in the same time that Barst gained 8, when Wolf's Exp gains are initially liek half of Barst's.
Mah boi, I rigged the levels for a reason: to show Zag winning against Barst is hard to see as well.

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38 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:09 pm

One step ahead of you.

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39 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:10 pm

Inty-kun agrees so it's game over really

*eats a bag of blue raspberry skittles*

Want one?

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40 Re: Barst>Wolf on Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:56 pm

sure

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