Fire Emblem Genesis

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Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route)

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1 Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:47 pm

First of all, Joshua nearly doubles Ephraim in availability. It's 17 chapters vs 9.

So when Ephraim finally gets back,
Joshua 20/3 (SM), B Natasha, B Gerik:
42-43 hp
18 str
21 skl
21 spd
12 lck
12-13 def
8-9 res
With a killing edge: 27 att, 117 hit, 21 AS, 70 crit in one hit/91 in two.
With a silver sword: 31 att, 122 hit, 21 AS, 40 crit in one hit/64 in two.

EDIT: Also, I'm thinking about the possibility that Joshua goes Assassin. He'll have to give up 2 hp, 1 str, and 15 crit, but he gains utility, silencer, and better exp gain. I don't know exactly how much better his exp gain will be, but it can probably make up for that 2 hp/1 str in time with 20 less class bonus and 1.8x from silencer.

Ephraim 15, C Eirika
32 hp
15 str
15 skl
16 spd
13-14 lck
11 def
5 res
With Reginleif: 25 att (45 effective), 110 hit, 16 AS, 22 crit in one hit/40 in two.
With a killer lance: 25 att, 100 hit, 15 AS, 42 crit in one hit/66 in two.
With a silver lance: 29 att, 105 hit, 14 AS, 12 crit in one hit/23 in two.

So Joshua's winning everything but luck (ironic) and effective Reginleif, but then again, Joshua doesn't have to care with a massive crit rate. Ephraim can level up faster to catch up, but I don't think any wins Ephraim can pull out by endgame can make up for the big availability loss and initial loss when he comes back.



Last edited by Weapons of Mass Construct on Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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2 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:02 pm

The availability loss probably kills Ephraim's chances regardless of anything else, yeah.

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3 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:59 pm

I pretty much agree. I'll just wait a day or so to see if anybody objects, and then make the change.

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4 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:43 pm

Just use Swordmaster really. Aside from that there isn't much to object here.

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5 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:59 pm

I dunno. I actually think EXP bonus may be something to ponder.

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6 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:24 pm

Is Ephraim really going to be doing so much better than Joshua that it makes up for Joshua's huge availability lead?
20/1 Ephraim
39.8 HP
18.8 STR
20.8 SKL
20.2 SPD
16 LUK
14.6 DEF
11 RES

20/6 Joshua
45 HP
17 STR
22.75 SKL
22.75 SPD
13 LUK
11 DEF
7 RES

Well, with Joshua's supports, I'd say they're even, maybe Ephraim's a little bit better thanks to the move lead. There's no way this> 8 chapters where Ephraim doesn't exist, and then beating him for a few more.

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7 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:30 pm

He's arguing Joshua>Ephraim, not the other way around.

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8 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:33 pm

Thus why I said "There's no way this> 8 chapters where Ephraim doesn't exist, and then beating him for a few more."

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9 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:50 pm

I don't know what you're talking about. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the OP?

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10 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:52 pm

Maybe he's trying to say Joshua is aizenstomping him?

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11 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:56 pm

Well, Ephraim does also have 1-2 range while Joshua is lacking, late but viable supports of his own if the right people are open (everyone on his list except L'Arachel is 20 turns or less to C), and a legendary weapon exclusive to him after promotion so I do think Ephraim is a bit better than has been stated in some of these comparisons, but the availability lead overrides that.

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12 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:58 pm

I'm agreeing with the OP.

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13 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:25 pm

bump

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14 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:35 pm

Making the change

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15 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:21 pm

I tested some exp gain differences between Josh's different promotions, and found out that SM gives 7 exp for a kill vs 23 from Assassin from a lvl 12 bandit. That's a pretty significant difference; in ~six kills, Josh will have gotten 2 levels as an Assassin as opposed to 1 as an SM.

Against a generic level 3 promoted enemy unit,

As a level 1 SM,
Experience from doing damage = [31 + (3 + 20) - (1 + 20)] / 3 = 11
Experience from defeating (base)
= [(3 x 3) + 60] - { [(1 x 3) + 60] / 1 } = 6
Experience from defeating enemy = [11 + 6 + 20 + 0 + 0)] x 1 = 37 exp

As a level 1 Assassin,
Experience from doing damage = [31 + (3 + 20) - (1 + 20)] / 3 = 11
Experience from defeating (base)
= [(3 x 3) + 60] - { [(1 x 3) + 40] / 1 } = 26
Experience from defeating enemy = [11 + 26 + 20 + 0 + 0)] x 1 or ~1.8 = 57 or 100 exp

Exp gain really favors Assassin as the exp gains increase due to Silencer, so I can see Assassin easily eclipsing SM.

That exp formula is nasty.

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16 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:35 pm

I'm not sure if the exp formula is entirely accurate. For example, going by what it says for the mode coefficient, a L2 unit killing a L2 enemy should get more than 30 Exp (I think; my calculations could be wrong, ofcourse), but I distinctly remember units getting 30 Exp for a kill on same-level enemies.

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17 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:39 pm

Magus wrote:Well, Ephraim does also have 1-2 range while Joshua is lacking, late but viable supports of his own if the right people are open (everyone on his list except L'Arachel is 20 turns or less to C), and a legendary weapon exclusive to him after promotion so I do think Ephraim is a bit better than has been stated in some of these comparisons, but the availability lead overrides that.

I think you mean "constant access to 1-2 range", because I recall Carlyle drops that Wind Sword.

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18 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:59 am

Not according to Serenes or my memory of the game.

The only 1-2 range sword you get is the Light Brand I believe, which doesn't come until Ch 20 and also requires you to save however many Rausten knights. Might as well be no 1-2 range swords in the game.

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19 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:03 am

Huh...I always remembered getting that sword.

Perhaps just my bad memory again, nevermind me.

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20 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:26 am

Carlyle does not drop the Wind Sword.

Might I suggest Namenda Grandjackal?

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21 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:42 am

IOS wrote:Carlyle does not drop the Wind Sword.

Might I suggest Namenda Grandjackal?

It really has been too long...Namenda???

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22 Re: Joshua > Ephraim (Eirika Route) on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:51 am

Grandjackal wrote:
IOS wrote:Carlyle does not drop the Wind Sword.

Might I suggest Namenda Grandjackal?

It really has been too long...Namenda???

Google it.

It's some kind of alzheimers thing.

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