Fire Emblem Genesis

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The great Top/High Tier debate

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1 The great Top/High Tier debate on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:12 am

Basically, I'm going to examine all the characters currently in High Tier on an every other chapter basis. Yes it will be time consuming, but I'll split it up. I love statistics, so don't think I'm crazy. Razz

I could start with Chapter 1 or 2, but I think its the most fair to start at Chapter 4 when everybody can class change. There's already a tier list for Chapters 1-3 anyways, so refer to that if you need to know which characters are better at what point. Characters who performed well in Chapters 1-3 will be Level 5. Characters who were lacking will be Level 4. This level gap will close by the next chapter.

For this chapter, Merric and Hardin won't be considered (because Merric joins too late, and Hardin doesn't join at all)

EDIT: This is way too long. I think its pretty much accepted that Caeda, Hardin and Ogma are worse then the cavs, so they're out. And I'll just do one of the cavs, since they're so similar. Merric also won't really be considered offensively until he promotes.

Chapter 4
5/0 Barts: 26 HP, 21 Atk (Steel Axe), 10 AS, 6 Def
4/0 Cord: 22 HP, 18 Atk (Steel Axe), 10 AS, 5 Def
4/0 Draug: 22 HP, 13 Atk (Iron Bow), 10 AS, 4 Def
4/0 Daros: 22 HP, 14 Atk (Iron Lance), 1 AS, 12 Def
5/0 Abel: 23 HP, 13/17(+1) Atk (Iron Sword/Steel Lance), 8/9 (Steel Lance/Iron Sword) AS, 8 Def

Man this is going to take forever:

Barts:
Thief 1: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Thief 3: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Fighters: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Hunters: 2RKO. Is 3-4RKO'd
Archers: 2RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Armor: ORKO with Hammer. Is 3RKO'd
Horseman: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Cav (Iron Lance): 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Cav (Iron Sword): 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd

Cord:
Thieves: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Fighters: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Hunters: 2RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Archers: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Armor: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Horseman: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Cav (Iron Lance): 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Cav (Iron Sword):3RKO. Is 2RKO'd

Draug:
Thieves: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Fighters: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Hunters: 3RKO. Is 2-3RKO'd
Archers: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Armor: 8RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Horseman: 5RKO. Is 1-2RKO'd
Cavs: 5RKO. Is 2RKO'd

Daros:
Thief 1: 2RKO. *tink*
Thief 3: 3RKO. *tink*
Fighter: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Hunter: 3RKO. Is 4RKO'd or 6RKO'd
Archer: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Armor: 11RKO's. Is 4RKO'd
Horseman: 5RKO. Is 4RKO'd or 6RKO'd
Cav (Iron Sword): 5RKO. 2-3RKO'd
Cav (Iron Lance): 5RKO. 2-3RKO'd
ORKO'd by the Armorslayer Guy

Abel:
Thief 1: 2RKO. Is 4RKO'd
Thief 3: 2RKO. Is 4-6KO'd
Fighter: 4RKO. Is 2-3RKO'd
Hunter: 2RKO. Is 4RKO'd
Archer: 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Armor: 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Horseman: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Cav (Iron Sword): 3RKO. Is 3-4RKO'd
Cav (Iron Lance): 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd

Barst vs. Abel is pretty close. Barst can kill the odd enemy in one few rounds, but Abel can take the odd extra hit. They're about equal right now.

Pretty much the same case with Cord vs. Darros, although Cord does do noticably better against the Cavs and Fighters (the two biggest threats on the map. Cord has the slight edge

Draug is just doing terribly right now. Hopefully he can get out of his rut soon.

Barts=Abel>>Cord>Darros>>>Draug for Chapter 4.



Last edited by IOS on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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2 Re: The great Top/High Tier debate on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:34 am

And If anybody objects to anything (For example: Abel having D Swords which I'm kind of doubting right now) then speak up. I'd like to make this as unbiased as possible.

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3 Re: The great Top/High Tier debate on Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:02 am

Chapter 6

I've decided to keep the one level gap, as the units who weren't doing as well before still weren't doing as well by Chapter 4. This will end up closing completely by the next comparison though.

8/0 Barts: 28 HP, 22 Atk (Steel Axe), 11 AS, 7 Def
7/0 Cord: 24 HP, 20 Atk (Steel Axe), 11 AS, 6 Def
7/0 Draug: 23 HP, 17 Atk (Steel Bow), 12 AS, 4 Def
7/0 Darros: 24 HP, 18 Atk (Steel Lance), 1 AS, 14 Def
8/0 Abel: 25 HP, 17/18(+1) Atk (Steel Sword/Lance), 11 AS, 8 Def

Already, it looks like Cord's on track to surpass Abel, but we'll see:

Barts:

Armors: ORKOs with a Hammer. Is 2-3RKO'd (shaves off -2 mt)
Thief: 2RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Cavs: 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd (To BB: Do the Silver Lance ones really have the same might?)
Archers: 2RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Mages: ORKO. Is 2RKO'd

Already, he's looking much more durable. Mages and the odd Armor are the only things that might give him immediate problems.

Cord:

Armors: ORKO with a Hammer (if he has the rank, he probably will by now). Is 2RKO'd
Thief: 2RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Cavs: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Archer 1: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Archer 3: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Mages: ORKO. Is 2RKO'd

Please let me know if anyone has objections to Cord using the Hammer this early.

Draug:

Armors: 3-4RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Cavs: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Archers: 3RKO (2RKO's the 8 AS ones). Is 2RKO'd
Mages: ORKO. Is 2RKO'd

Darros:

Armors: 5-6RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKO. Is *tinked*
Cavs: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Archers: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Mages: 2RKO. Is 1-2RKO'd

Abel:

Armors: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKO. Is 5RKO'd
Cavs: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd
Archers: 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd
Mages: ORKO. Is 2RKO'd

Ok.

Barts is actually the most durable unit at this point, and he's the best offensively. Clear win for him.

Cord and Abel are pretty similar at the moment. However, Abel does have that slight durability edge against some enemies that Cord can't really make up for. Its very close, but Abel pulls ahead slightly for now.

Draug and Darros are pretty similar offensively and defensively right now. However, Draug does have the advantage of not fearing a counter on most turns, and Darros is kind of failing at what he's supposed to be good at. Draug>Darros right now.

Barts>Abel>Cord>>Draug>Darros for Chapter 6

Again, any qualms should be brought up so I can make the changes. Chapter 8 hopefully coming soon.

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4 Re: The great Top/High Tier debate on Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:20 am

Chapter 7

Now everybody should be around 10/0. I'll close the level gap, and see how everybody does at this point. The level gap should of closed by now, so lets take a look at everybody

Barts 10/0: 30 HP, 23 Atk (Steel Axe), 11 AS, 7 Def
Cord 10/0: 26 HP, 21 Atk (Steel Axe), 12 AS, 6 Def
Draug 10/0: 24 HP, 17 Atk (+1) (Steel Bow), 14 AS, 4 Def
Daros 10/0: 26 HP, 19 Atk (+1) (Steel Lance), 1 AS, 16 Def
Abel 10/0: 26 HP, 19 Atk (+1) (Steel Lance), 12 AS, 9 Def

Full comparison coming soon.

Barts:

Archers: 2RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Wyvern: 3RKOs. Is 2-3RKO'd
Mercs: 2RKOs. Is 2-3RKO'd
Pegs: 2RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Boss: Hammer Barst has 40 Atk. He 2RKOs. The boss 2RKOs him back

Cord:

Archers: 2RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Wyvern: 4RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Mercs: 2-3RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pegs: 2-3RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Boss: Hammer Cord has 38 Atk. He doubles and ORKOs the boss. The boss 2RKOs him back.

Draug:

Archers: 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Wyvern: 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Mercs: 3RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pegs: 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd

Daros:

Archers: 3RKOs. Is 7RKO'd
Wyvern: 4RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Mercs: 3RKOs. Is 13RKO'd or tinked
Pegs: 3RKOs. Is 5RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKOs. Is tinked

Abel:

Archers: 3RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Wyvern: 4RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Mercs: 3RKOS. Is 4RKO'd
Pegs: 3RKOS. Is 3RKO'd
Thieves: 2RKOs. Is 4RKO'd

Ok, so Barts and Draug now lead offence, and Barts is very often 3RKO'd in relation to Draug being 2RKO'd. However, Barts has to drop down to Cord level offence in order to attack at 1~2 range. I'd still give Barts the edge, as there are only two enemies on the map that don't 3RKO him.

I'd put Daros next. He's outputting offence that is much worse then Cord, but his durability is just too damn amazing. Archers, Mercs, Pegs, he doesn't fear these at all. He takes third

Abel trails after Cord. Taking the odd extra hit doesn't make up for pretty bad offence.

Barts>Draug>Daros>Cord>Abel

Again, please raise any objections if you have any.

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5 Re: The great Top/High Tier debate on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:24 pm

IOS wrote:Abel trails after Cord. Taking the odd extra hit doesn't make up for pretty bad offence.
And Darros taking extra hits does make up for pretty bad offense?

I think high defense is overrated in this game when just being able to survive a couple rounds of combat with good offensive output is more than enough to put strategy to use to overcome defensive shortcomings.

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6 Re: The great Top/High Tier debate on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:53 pm

Chapter 9

Barts 12/0: 31 HP, 24 Atk (Steel Axe), 12 AS, 7 Def
Cord 12/0: 28 HP, 22 Atk (Steel Axe), 13 AS, 6 Def
Draug 12/0: 25 HP, 18 Atk (Steel Bow), 15 AS, 4 Def
Daros 12/0: 28 HP, 19 Atk (+1) (Steel Lance), 1 AS, 17 Def
Abel 12/0: 27 HP, 18 (+1)/19 Atk (+1) (Steel Sword/Lance), 13 AS, 9 Def

Barts:

Thieves: 2RKO's. Is 4RKO'd
Pirate 3s: 2RKOs. Is 2-3RKO'd
Pirate 5 (Steel Axe): 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pirate 5 (Devil Axe): 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Hunters: 2RKOs. Is 3-4RKO'd
Mage: ORKOs. Is 2RKO'd

Cord:

Thieves: 2RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Pirate 3s: ORKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pirate 5s (Steel Axe): 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pirate 5 (Devil Axe): 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Hunters: 2RKOs. Is 3RKO'd
Mages: ORKOs. Is 2RKO'd

Draug:

Thieves: 2RKOs. Is 2-3RKO'd
Pirate 3s: 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pirate 5s (Steel Axe): 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pirate 5 (Devil Axe): 2RKOs. Is ORKO'd
Hunters: 1-2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Mages: ORKOs. Is 2RKO'd

Daros:

Thieves: 2RKOs. *tink*
Pirate 3s: 3RKOs. Is 2-3RKO'd
Pirate 5s (Steel Axe): 3RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Pirate 5 (Devil Axe): 2RKOs. Is ORKO'd
Hunters: 2RKOs. Is tinked or 14RKO'd
Mages: 2RKOs. Is ORKO'd

Abel:

Thieves: 2RKOs. Is 6-7RKO'd
Pirate 3s: 2RKOs. Is 2-3RKO'd (Handaxe guy is the only one to 3RKO)
Pirate 5s: 2RKOs. Is 2RKO'd
Hunters: 2RKOs. Is 3-4RKO'd
Mages: ORKO. Is 2RKO'd

So Barts and Abel are pretty much even offensively/defensively, and so are Cord and Draug. Daros is dead last due to bad offence, and pretty bad defense as well. So Draug is probably the best unit as this point. He's on par with Barts/Cord offensively, but does this all at 2 range and isn't too far behind durability wise. Then comes Cord, who slightly edges out Barst due to being able to ORKO the Pirate 3s. Barst and Abel seem essentially equal (Abel's slightly better thief offence means little). Then Daros comes last

Draug>Cord>Barst=Abel>>Daros

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7 Re: The great Top/High Tier debate on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:20 pm

Dondon: I'm trying to start a mini discussion about the value of durability over at serenes.

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8 Re: The great Top/High Tier debate on Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:49 pm

I'm going to put this temporarily on hold, simply because its much harder to compare 5 units then it is 2. I'm going to focus on showing a tier gap between Barst and Caeda/Abel/etc. Starting with Barst vs. Abel. New topic coming soon.

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