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Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck

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1 Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:37 pm

Myrm Athena has 9 Str, Peg has 10. Myrm has access to Steel and Killers, for 17 mt, 20+ crit possibility. 16 mt at WTD, +1 from rank on anything else. Iron Lance is 6 mt. Athena has 13 speed, Pegasi version only has 9. This is doubling well deep into the game your general foe, while 9 is not doing a damn thing. Growth in speed and Str are the same, and same with defense, except Athena as a myrm has more HP growth, while Pegasi Athena only has 1 more def base. Athena would need 8 levels as a pegasus to start doubling general enemies, while Myrm Athena starts already capable. C rank gives her access to Killer Edge, which boosts crit by 20. So at the start, Athena as a myrm has twice the offense that Pegasus Athena has.

Wyvern:

38 HP
23 atk
93 hit
15 AS
10 def
3 res

Merc lvl 3:

29 HP
20 atk
101 hit
13 AS
6 def

Merc 5:

32 HP
21 atk
102 hit
14 AS
6 def


Peg:

30 HP
19 atk
91 hit
5 def
6 res

Lvl 3 is the same, just with 1 more speed and HP. Yeah. pegs suck.

Chapter 7. The following is capable of doubling Pegasus Athena. They would retaliate with generally the same damage, with the exception that Myrm Athena could use a Killer Edge while she walls.

Cav data is non existent here for some reason, but let's use chapter 8's example for shits and giggles. I can assume greater exp gain for Athena, due to her all around better performance in this chapter.

Cav:

31 (32) HP
22 atk
97 (9 hit
9 (10) AS
7 ( def
0 (1) res

Ok, so Myrm Athena does 9x2 damage, reducing this fucker down to 13 HP. Pegasi Athena would only do 9 damage, the guy having 22 HP still left. Keep in mind these are the stronger cavs that appear a chapter later, rather than the weaker ones of chapter 7.

Wait, chapter 8?

Archer:

29 HP
19 atk
93 hit
9 AS
6 (7) def

Archer 5:

31 HP
19 atk
93 hit
9 (10) AS
7 def
0 (1) res

Death for Pegasus Athena. Even with Steel and a Strength up, she's doing 10 mt. Holy shit, a 3RKO. Athena as a Myrm with Iron does 15 damage (9+5+1 from rank), which 2RKOs. At least Myrm Athena with her 25 HP and 7 Def can actually take 2 shots from them.

Armor:

33 (34) HP
22 atk
93 hit
3 AS
11 (12) def
0 (1) res

Athena Peg needs steel, but would be killed on the rebound. Athena Myrm on hte other hand has Armorslayer for the ORKO.


Horseman:

34 (35) HP
17 (1 atk
97 hit
15 AS
6 def
3 (4) res

Death for Pegasi, Myrm Athena doesn't even get doubled, able to take 3 shots from them. I would consider this pretty nifty, as everyone else is generally doubled, so even those that can counter would be weary of these guys. Peg Athena might have Steel, but Myrm has Killer.

Boss: Canaris

42 HP
28 atk
105 hit
10 AS
15 def

At least Myrm Athena can make an attempt with the Armorslayer. Peg Athena can't even double.

Do javelins make up for the complete offensive blowout? No.

Then chapter 9 is nothing but Pirates and Hunters, why would you bring a pegasus here?


Pirates:
33-35 HP
23-24 atk (Steel), 21-22 atk (Hand), 32 atk (Devil)
90-91 hit (Steel), 80-81 hit (Hand), 121 hit (Devil)
9 AS
5 (6) def
0 (1) res

Unless you can explain how Peg Athena got 8 levels in 2 chapters with that kind of performance, she won't be doubling. Athena can double at base. Her avoid as a myrmidon has 19, and the WTA reduces their hit by 36, meaning they have generally 55-45 hit, reducable by 10 thanks to forests. Pegasi Athena cannot utilize terrain. Peg Athena is a sitting duck. If we can assume Steel and Javelins in 1 chapter with worse performance, I can assume 30 actions for Myrm Athena easily, scoring her silver. She would then be packing 21+2 mt, which ORKOs all but the absolute strongest. I'm sorry, how many people are capable of this at this point in time? Even Abel needs 12 levels to pull this off, and then you have to think how he got B rank in swords. Navarre has to think about Str, and how he got it to 8 Str with that 30% growth. 10 levels, and A rank swords would only yield the same results. Marth is unlikely with his similar speed base to Abel, this leaves...Ogma. She's comparing to OGMA. I don't care what you say, instant win for Myrm Athena.

Speaking of Ogma, did you know he needs about 8 levels to reach her base Str? The only difference between them is he has 3 more HP and 1 more speed, where both are doubling anyways and she has a 10% better growth.

So tell me people, how is being comparable to Ogma worse than being a shitty unit who has quiestionable doubling abilities and defensive status just because of javelins? Speaking of which...

Wyvern:
50 HP
25 atk
89 hit
20 AS
13 def
3 res

This is chapter 22. If I could assume 20/10 for Athena as a Swordmaster? She has 24 Speed, now tell me anyone who has this sort of speed who didn't cop out as a Swordmaster. 32 Mt with the Miracle Blade, 19x2 damage. I'm pretty sure the only way you can do better is if you launched a Parthia bolt into this thing's face. 20/10 Athena as a Draco has 18 speed, which wasn't doubling the paladins back in chapter 16 with the 15 AS, much less now with their 16-17 AS. I truly question Pegasi Athena's ability to double, and I feel we can do better than this. This does nothing but the bare minimum, Swordmaster Athena throughout her career is always capable of severely wounding things for others, or killing things that would otherwise take more than one other person to down. Pegasus Athena is all build up for generally weak results with a bow weakness. All for what? Flying and javelins? Pfeh.

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2 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:44 am

10/0 Ogma: 27 HP, 16 Atk (+2) (Steel Sword), 14 AS, 7 Def
10/0 Athena: 25 HP, 17 Atk (+1) (Steel Sword), 13 AS, 7 Def

15/0 Ogma: 32 HP, 22 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 15 AS, 8 Def
15/0 Athena: 29 HP, 22 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 15 AS, 8 Def

20/1 Ogma: 42 HP, 26 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 19 AS, 11 Def
20/1 Athena: 39 HP, 26 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 20 AS, 10 Def

20/10 Ogma: 51 HP, 30 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 22 AS, 13 Def
20/10 Athena: 45 HP, 28 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 24 AS, 11 Def

I can't believe it, but I actually buy the hype. Not to mention that you can make Athena a sniper after promotion if you don't want to be stuck to swords. Instead of comparing Myrm Athena to Peg Athena, why not compare Ogma to Myrm Athena using enemy stats?

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3 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:43 am

We stopped assuming Pegasus Athena awhile back.

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4 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:58 am

How come "Pegasus--->Dracoknight" is listed as her recommended path in the class guide then?

I'll do enemy comparisons for Ogma vs. Athena in a bit.

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5 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:00 am

How come "Pegasus--->Dracoknight" is listed as her recommended path in the class guide then?
I dunno. I don't pay much attention to Colonel M's guides.

And let's ignore Oguma for now. Let's argue her above Horace, Castor, etc if we think she should rise.

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6 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:51 am

Commonly falling under WTD is the problem here, and I'd only compare Athena to Ogma while they aren't promoted (once Ogma's promoted he can escape the WTD rut). I'd probably be more inclined to go Sniper after promotion, but to be honest Athena is one of those few characters I don't know wtf we're doing. I simply chose Pegasus Knight -> DracoKnight since IIRC it was regarded as her "better route" since it has existing durability.

It's not supposed to be 100% set in stone anyway, as I've said in the OP: Feel free to disagree and post in it.

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7 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:02 am

And let's ignore Oguma for now. Let's argue her above Horace, Castor, etc if we think she should rise.

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8 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:05 am

Maybe above Horace, but he's kind of a utility character so it's hard to argue that out. Castor has 2 chapters as a Hunter where he has a fairly accurate 2 range and swapping to Armor Knight (or I guess keeping himself as a Hunter pending which you see as easier) and by C10 w/the Master Seal it's just about over w/Armor Knight -> General.

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9 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:08 am

Maybe above Horace, but he's kind of a utility character so it's hard to argue that out.
This didn't stop Jeigan (who is considered amazing utility) from falling on the tier list.

Castor has 2 chapters as a Hunter where he has a fairly accurate 2 range and swapping to Armor Knight (or I guess keeping himself as a Hunter pending which you see as easier) and by C10 w/the Master Seal it's just about over w/Armor Knight -> General.
IMO stuff like Hunter -> General and early promotion is just as hyped as a lot of stuff Grandjackal says because they're never cited to have any proven disadvantages. Has anybody actually tested to see how good this makes Kashim in practice?

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10 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:27 am

Well that's news to me, FE3 Player.

IOS wrote:10/0 Ogma: 27 HP, 16 Atk (+2) (Steel Sword), 14 AS, 7 Def
10/0 Athena: 25 HP, 17 Atk (+1) (Steel Sword), 13 AS, 7 Def

15/0 Ogma: 32 HP, 22 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 15 AS, 8 Def
15/0 Athena: 29 HP, 22 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 15 AS, 8 Def

20/1 Ogma: 42 HP, 26 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 19 AS, 11 Def
20/1 Athena: 39 HP, 26 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 20 AS, 10 Def

20/10 Ogma: 51 HP, 30 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 22 AS, 13 Def
20/10 Athena: 45 HP, 28 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 24 AS, 11 Def

I can't believe it, but I actually buy the hype. Not to mention that you can make Athena a sniper after promotion if you don't want to be stuck to swords. Instead of comparing Myrm Athena to Peg Athena, why not compare Ogma to Myrm Athena using enemy stats?

10/0, the difference is that Ogma can take a sword and a bow shot, that's about it.

15/0 I assume is about chapter 12 or so, which case Ogma can't survive anything Athena can't, so they're identical there.

20/1, Athena can double the 16 AS paladins, while Ogma can't. On the other hand, Ogma is 3RKOd where Athena is not. Offense vs Defense really.

20/10, Ogma with an axe can survive 3 brave assaults, but Athena can double the high speed 20 and 19 AS Dracos. Ogma with a hand axe has about 26 mt if I'm not mistaken, hitting once that would be roughly 13 damage. Athena with a Levin Sword (you could have stocked up a few chapters ago) has weapon rank, and does not suffer the WTD, and has 1 mag due to class. Dracos have 3 Res, she is packing 6+3+1 mt, so she would do 7x2 damage. Similar damage, except Athena has two chances to crit, and because she's doubling means it would be more effective to forge mt onto the Levin Sword. Then consider the Levin Sword basically is accurate on everthing, while Ogma's hand axe might take a dip on things not using lances, like Horsemen and Heroes. He'd have 86 hit with a hand axe at this point, enemies with generally 20 speed outside lancers have that much avoid, so he has 66 hit, which is iffy needless to say. In fact even with WTA, that's only 76 hit on dracos. He hurts paladins more, but she hurts everything else more. He can take more shots from everything else, so I would say Ogma wins here.

Basically they tie for the most part, then it splits into doubling vs taking an extra assault if he has axes equipped, of which he at best probably only has Steel Axe, meaning he would actually doing less damage than with a Silver Sword. Basically superior player phase vs. slightly better enemy phase.

I'd say Ogma wins, but Athena is pretty damn similar up until near the end, and even then she has her own advantages over him.

EDIT: Ogma's advantage is offense with swords up until promotion, how does facing the WTD matter? Most of the team gets 2RKOd, so it would only be logical to assume that it is better to have superior offense. Athena has that, along with Ogma. To have superior offense, you need to be doubling with other weapon types, and even the Cavs have trouble doing that until later in the game, of which they run into trouble with the likes of dracos and heroes in that department. So unless you're some of the god modders, you aren't having offense with anything unless it is actually using swords. Facing WTD sucks, but having half hte offense you would have as a speedy sword class sucks even worse.

When did I start hyping Hunter->General? It's at best a cop-out if you're incompetent at anything else, which lets them keep the ability to survive more than 1 or 2 rounds later in the game. Kashim faces this problem, because his speed base is bogus, despite his ok growth. He can't get relevent speed fast enough as anything really, and armor knight does not warrent enough defense. I think...

Hmmm...Well, as an Armor, he can function as a wall, and after promotion he's capable of taking shots....Hmmm...Actually, he could be a cantidate for early promotion with this in mind. I'll look into it later.

I think she could go somewhere around Horace, despite having offense basically on everything forever. Midgame tanking utility is a bit too much to compete with, and neither is being straight up invincible like Darros is eventually.

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11 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:08 am

FE3_Player wrote:
Maybe above Horace, but he's kind of a utility character so it's hard to argue that out.
This didn't stop Jeigan (who is considered amazing utility) from falling on the tier list.
Well, you can also consider that Horace's utility can stretch longer, but I'm not barring Athena from rising.
Castor has 2 chapters as a Hunter where he has a fairly accurate 2 range and swapping to Armor Knight (or I guess keeping himself as a Hunter pending which you see as easier) and by C10 w/the Master Seal it's just about over w/Armor Knight -> General.
IMO stuff like Hunter -> General and early promotion is just as hyped as a lot of stuff Grandjackal says because they're never cited to have any proven disadvantages. Has anybody actually tested to see how good this makes Kashim in practice?
I've tested stuff such as Hunter->General Dolph which was the reason why I went straight for it. I decided to test it more in the next playthrough so I'll see which is marginally better: the Armor Knight or the Hunter. There are some disadvantages to the setup, but they're usually minimal if they're from C4 - C10.

@Grandjackal: Please don't say Levin Sword ever again. >_>;

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12 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:17 am

Well, you can also consider that Horace's utility can stretch longer, but I'm not barring Athena from rising.
Jeigan can last for a little while as well, despite others getting better. I think it's perfectly reasonable for Athena to rise over him if justified.

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13 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:26 am

...If Swordmaster!Athena can prove herself useful in the lategame, then yeah I have no objections over Horace.

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14 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:49 pm

24 AS doubles the 20 AS dracoknights in chapter 21 and 22. It can double the 20 AS heroes in chapter 23, and if she's level 20/12, she can double the 21 AS snipers as well.

13 Mamkute Magic:
50 HP
25 atk
111 hit
24 AS
18 def
24 res

She can't double, but isn't doubled, and she should have around 47 HP around here with 3 Res. She should have around 16 Str. Wyrmslayers and A rank total to 21+16+3=40 mt, doing 22 damage. Maybe not positive, but it's hard to have even neutral on these things. She has neutral, or at least crit. This is the chapter 24 stuff here, as a note.

Swordmasters I'm also noticing that when plopped on terrain can lower brave accuracy down significantly, thanks to their speed, even despite WTD. It's not a cure all, but it still helps I suppose.

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15 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:52 pm

Lets see how she does at promo (Chapter 16)

20/1 Athena: 39 HP, 26 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 20 AS, 10 Def

Horsemen: She ORKOs all of them. She is 3RKO'd (barely 2RKO'd by the Level 8s)
Wyvern: She might be able to ORKO the Poleaxe one if they have 11 Def, but any other Wyvern is 2RKO'd. She is 3RKO'd by them all
Hero: She 3RKOs (can't double). In return, she is 3RKO'd
Cav 6: She ORKOs. Gets 3RKO'd
Cav 8: 2RKOs the Javelin ones, and ORKOs the Silver Sword one. Gets 3RKO'd
Cav 10: ORKO's the Armorslayer one and 2RKOs the Ridersbane one. Gets 3RKO'd
Paladin: 2RKOs him. Gets 2RKO'd back
General: Armorslayer brings her attack to 34, but she still 2RKOs. Gets 2RKO'd

She's doing pretty decently. Compared to Ogma, he gets 3RKO'd by everything that would 2RKO Athena, but he can only 2RKO the Horsemen. Otherwise, they're performing pretty similarly.

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16 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:18 pm

What part of "Axe Rank" is being missed here? I'd say that Swordmaster!Athena has grounds to go over Horace, but then again her main thing with damaging DracoKnights involves a rare and wanted weapon (Mercurius bitches). She also cannot ORKO the Poleaxe Draco in C16.

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17 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:04 pm

Colonel M wrote:What part of "Axe Rank" is being missed here? I'd say that Swordmaster!Athena has grounds to go over Horace, but then again her main thing with damaging DracoKnights involves a rare and wanted weapon (Mercurius bitches). She also cannot ORKO the Poleaxe Draco in C16.

What axe rank? D axes? Ok great, so much I can do with that.

...Who said she needed the Mercurius Blade, and do name anyone who can use it better.

Who can ORKO dracos at all unless you're a sniper with Parthia, or great Str and a silver bow?

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18 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:10 pm

Grandjackal wrote:
Colonel M wrote:What part of "Axe Rank" is being missed here? I'd say that Swordmaster!Athena has grounds to go over Horace, but then again her main thing with damaging DracoKnights involves a rare and wanted weapon (Mercurius bitches). She also cannot ORKO the Poleaxe Draco in C16.

What axe rank? D axes? Ok great, so much I can do with that.

...Who said she needed the Mercurius Blade, and do name anyone who can use it better.

Who can ORKO dracos at all unless you're a sniper with Parthia, or great Str and a silver bow?
I mean "further into the game" where shit like Poleaxes and Hammers can make a comeback. Though Hammers get parried a bit with Armorslayer.

Mercuruis user that possibly needs it: Marth. That is, if you don't want his offense to go down the gutter.

Oh and btw, Lorenz w/Parthia can ORKO DracoKnights.

Lesse, C21 Paladins have 46 HP | 11 Def. To ORKO while being under the weapon triangle you need about 23 Str. Yeah, good luck reaching that with Athena and her 25% Str growth.

Athena > Horace I agree with, Athena > Oguma is not happening.

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19 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:20 pm

Colonel M wrote:
Grandjackal wrote:
Colonel M wrote:What part of "Axe Rank" is being missed here? I'd say that Swordmaster!Athena has grounds to go over Horace, but then again her main thing with damaging DracoKnights involves a rare and wanted weapon (Mercurius bitches). She also cannot ORKO the Poleaxe Draco in C16.

What axe rank? D axes? Ok great, so much I can do with that.

...Who said she needed the Mercurius Blade, and do name anyone who can use it better.

Who can ORKO dracos at all unless you're a sniper with Parthia, or great Str and a silver bow?
I mean "further into the game" where shit like Poleaxes and Hammers can make a comeback. Though Hammers get parried a bit with Armorslayer.

Mercuruis user that possibly needs it: Marth. That is, if you don't want his offense to go down the gutter.

Oh and btw, Lorenz w/Parthia can ORKO DracoKnights.

Lesse, C21 Paladins have 46 HP | 11 Def. To ORKO while being under the weapon triangle you need about 23 Str. Yeah, good luck reaching that with Athena and her 25% Str growth.

Athena > Horace I agree with, Athena > Oguma is not happening.

It's not so much what the axe has, but rather what rank the user has. Ogma can't use those weapons without the rank, and that requires basically 45 actions. He's not seeing C rank so instantly.

Mercurius. I could give it to Marth. OR, I could give it to someone who doubles far more consistantly. Level 27 is what he needs to be just to double paladins at that late point in time. Athena could be using that to double dracos, of which everyone in general has a hard time doubling.

Now show me someone aside from paladins with ridersbane, or Cord/Draug and the immortal duo as Heroes who can pull off anything better. People in this game have a hard time doubling in general, and she's capable of doubling anything she encounters aside from horsemen early on. She has among the best melee offense you can find in this game.

But it seems she might not be high tier, but at least we both see she is better than Horace.

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20 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:27 pm

Grandjackal wrote:
Colonel M wrote:
Grandjackal wrote:
Colonel M wrote:What part of "Axe Rank" is being missed here? I'd say that Swordmaster!Athena has grounds to go over Horace, but then again her main thing with damaging DracoKnights involves a rare and wanted weapon (Mercurius bitches). She also cannot ORKO the Poleaxe Draco in C16.

What axe rank? D axes? Ok great, so much I can do with that.

...Who said she needed the Mercurius Blade, and do name anyone who can use it better.

Who can ORKO dracos at all unless you're a sniper with Parthia, or great Str and a silver bow?
I mean "further into the game" where shit like Poleaxes and Hammers can make a comeback. Though Hammers get parried a bit with Armorslayer.

Mercuruis user that possibly needs it: Marth. That is, if you don't want his offense to go down the gutter.

Oh and btw, Lorenz w/Parthia can ORKO DracoKnights.

Lesse, C21 Paladins have 46 HP | 11 Def. To ORKO while being under the weapon triangle you need about 23 Str. Yeah, good luck reaching that with Athena and her 25% Str growth.

Athena > Horace I agree with, Athena > Oguma is not happening.
It's not so much what the axe has, but rather what rank the user has. Ogma can't use those weapons without the rank, and that requires basically 45 actions. He's not seeing C rank so instantly.
He's likely seeing it by C18 at the latest.[/quote]

Mercurius. I could give it to Marth. OR, I could give it to someone who doubles far more consistantly. Level 27 is what he needs to be just to double paladins at that late point in time. Athena could be using that to double dracos, of which everyone in general has a hard time doubling.
You could go further to any Sword-user really. Julian is another example of a unit who could use Mercurius.
Now show me someone aside from paladins with ridersbane, or Cord/Draug and the immortal duo as Heroes who can pull off anything better. People in this game have a hard time doubling in general, and she's capable of doubling anything she encounters aside from horsemen early on. She has among the best melee offense you can find in this game.
Uh... Hero!Barst?
But it seems she might not be high tier, but at least we both see she is better than Horace.
This sounds good.

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21 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:07 am

Athena can't rely on speed alone to get into high tier. 20/5 AS values:

Sage Caeda: 24.1
Hero Cord: 23.1
Sniper Abel: 22.3
Swordmaster Athena: 21.9
Sniper Hardin: 21.7
Sniper Cain: 21.3
Hero Barst: 20.7
Hero Ogma: 20.0
General Draug: 19.2
Sage Merric: 17.3

Except for Merric (who will probably be like...20/12 by now) and Draug (who has questionably low AS, I think I need to argue him down), she's not doing a whole lot better AS wise. Then there's mono swords, poor strength, I think somewhere higher in Upper Mid sounds good.

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22 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:12 am

How is 19 AS "questionably low" and 20-21~ isn't? Horsemen are like the only thing it doesn't double that 20-22 does and Draug has Ridersbane at his disposal.

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23 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:25 am

In Chapter 19 (Reasonable time to be 20/5), Draug can't double Mercs, Hunters, Thieves, Snipers or Heroes (which leaves Mages and Priests). 20-21 AS doubles Mercs and Hunters.

This is only one map, but Mercs/Hunters make up about 1/3 of the map.

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24 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:31 am

I take it everyone agrees she's better than Bord and Castor because nobody seems to be making any attempts to object, or either that too distracted by Oguma.

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25 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:36 pm

FE3_Player wrote:I take it everyone agrees she's better than Bord and Castor because nobody seems to be making any attempts to object, or either that too distracted by Oguma.
Too distracted really. I'm not so sure on this one because their concrete durability at 10/1 is existant (Bord has about the same as AK!Darros, though after Darros will win Def).

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26 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:15 pm

By the time the first master seal comes up, Bord and Castor would be around 13/0 anyways, wouldn't they? Taking Bord (and assuming Silver weapons, as they come in C11 anyways):

Bord 13/1: 34 HP, 28 Atk (+2) (Silver Lance), 7 AS, 19 Def
Athena 13/1: 33 HP, 24 Atk (+3) (Silver Sword), 17 AS, 9 Def

In Chapter 11:

Cavs: Athena does 15-16 damage twice for a 2RKO. Bord does 22-23 damage once for a 2RKO.
Athena is hit with 17-19 damage for a 2RKO. Bord is hit with 6-8 damage for a 5-6RKO.

Mercs: Athena does 21-22 damage once for a 2RKO. Bord does 25-26 damage once for a 2RKO.
Athena is hit with 16 damage once for a 3RKO. Bord is hit with 2 damage twice (Merc loses 3 atk+1) for a 17RKO.

Pegs: Athena does 17 damage once for a 2RKO. Bord does 24 damage once for a 2RKO.
Athena is hit with 14 damage once for a 3RKO. Bord is hit with 3 damage twice for a 6RKO.

Sniper: Athena does 19 damage once for a 3RKO. Bord does 22 damage once for a 2RKO.
Athena is hit with 17 damage once for a 2RKO. Bord is hit with 7 damage twice for a 3RKO.

Horseman: Athena does 21 damage once for a 2RKO. Bord does 24 damage once for a 2RKO.
Athena is hit with 13 damage once for a 3RKO. Bord is hit with 3 damage twice for a 6RKO.

Athena isn't performing any better offensively then Bord, and is honestly getting creamed defensively. Even when she doubles, her low strength and mono swords holds her back. Meanwhile, Bord's defence continues to increase and his high strength lets him consistently 2RKO. I say Bord>Athena but I can do another chapter or two more if anybody wants.

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27 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:41 pm

Just a minor nitpick: He can't wield a Silver Lance. Silver Bow is plausible though.

Not that it really matters since it's like -2 Atk tops.

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28 Re: Myrmidon Athena Doesn't Suck on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:47 pm

Right, I did forget about that, which will only bring Bord down an attack point or so. I suppose that he would slowly bring up his lance rank when attaacking things that are 2RKO'd regardless to eventually use Ridersbane.

Silver Bow kind of lowers some of his tank utility though if he can't counterattack.

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